Wikinews

Wikinews:Flagged revisions/Requests for permissions

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Green check.png This page is an official policy on the English Wikinews. It has wide acceptance among editors and is considered a standard that all users should follow. When making changes to this page, please ensure that your revision reflects consensus. When in doubt, discuss first on the talk page.
See also Wikinews:Requests for permissions

Wikinews is currently running MediaWiki with the flagged revisions extension. Article validation allows for reviewers to approve articles and set those revisions as the default revision to show upon normal page view. Readers can also give feedback. These revisions will remain the same even if included templates are changed or images are overwritten. The text with expanded transclusions is stored in the database. This allows for MediaWiki to act more as a Content Management System (CMS).

Flagged revisions is used for quality control at Wikinews. In order for an article to be published, a reviewer must approve of the article (commonly referred to as sighting the article). See template:peer reviewed for more information on the publishing process. After an article is published, any subsequent change must also be approved by a reviewer. Articles waiting for review are listed at CAT:REV.

While Flagged revisions adds a new tab and info box to pages, the wiki does not work any differently for Logged in users. Users who are logged in will continue to see the most recent version of the page (Referred to as a "Draft"). Users can opt to view the stable versions by default instead ("My Preferences" > "Stability" Tab > Check "Always show the stable version..." > Save). The major change of Flagged revisions is what Anonymous users (those who are not logged in) see by default. They will see the most recent Stable version (The revision that has been marked as "Sighted"). If there have been additional changes to the page since the last "Sighting", there will be a small infobox informing them of a new draft of the page, and if they edit the page they will be presented with the latest draft.

In addition to the above rights, "Reviewer" status also comes packaged with rollback, a tool that allows an editor to revert the last edits to a page in a single click, without even having to check the diff first. This is primarily meant to deal with blatant vandalism.

Please use the below page to request FlaggedRevs permissions, putting new requests at the top. Requests will generally stay open for at least about a week (unless fast-tracked), after which an administrator will read the comments made by other users and decide whether or not to give out the flag. Before requesting this permission, you must be familiar with key policies, particularly the style guide and neutral point of view. Prior to review of any article, and its subsequent publication, you will be required to copyedit the article for any style issues. This requires a very good understanding of English grammar to maintain the quality of the project's published works.

  • When adding a request, please use {{User-rights|<username>}} as a level-three heading for the request, and note if you are putting forward a nomination for someone else who has not as-yet accepted the nomination on-wiki.

If it has been over a week and no one has gotten back to you about your request for Reviewer access, feel free to drop a note at the talk page of an administrator.

Archived requests

Requests for Reviewer StatusEdit

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Not yet. Two active reviewers oppose promotion at this time; support has been one active reviewer, one sometime-reporter (non-reviewing), and one inactive Wikinewsie (in good standing, accredited, former reviewer). The opposition here carries significant weight within both the RFP discussion, and the active reviewing community. This is not, in the current era, something to move on with significant opposition to it in the inner community. --Pi zero (talk) 06:05, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

DannyS712 (talk · contribs – Edit rights)Edit

I'm going to have a lot more free time in the coming year, and figured I'd get a start on this. I am familiar with local policies, and have written 28 articles (Category:DannyS712 (Wikinewsie)), in addition to contributions to other articles that I was not the primary author of. I am familiar with the flagged revisions software. I spend a lot of time available on-wiki, and would like to help ensure that all articles receive a prompt review so that they can avoid going stale. English is my native language, allowing me to carry out the copyediting expected of reviewers. Let me know if there are any questions I can answer. Happy new year! Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 23:56, 31 December 2019 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

  • DannyS712, thank you for putting your name forward for reviewer. Could you answer the following questions, please? Apologies for reusing the questions from a previous comment.
    • What style of inline references are acceptable for a Wikinews article?
    • There is an article for review, written in French with excellent French sources? How would you review it and why?
    • A new user writes an article about the 2016 US Presidential election and tags it for review. How would you review it and why?
    • An article you are reviewing uses a quotation of three sentences spoken by a famous actor, but the sentences don’t appear in the sources in the WN article. You know of a different source that quotes those three sentences. How would you add it as a source?
    • You’ve reviewed an article about a crucial part of the Brexit process and published it on 28 January 2020, just days before Brexit. A week later someone points out an error in the article. What do you do about it?
    • There is an article to be reviewed. It is about alleged Kremlin interference (ordered by President Putin himself) in the forthcoming US elections in 2020. It is very well written with a dozen paragraphs, in the correct style, with no copyright problems and is very newsworthy, citing articles from the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, Fox News and NBC, as well as quoting senior US intelligence officials, the White House, and the Speaker of the House, together with Tweets from President Trump. What reviewing issues might you raise about this article that could be pertinent to WN policies?
    • You have reviewed a new article and found it did not meet WN standards. The user who wrote it leaves an angry message on your talk page alleging a poor review on your part. How would you respond to them, particularly with reference to the five components of a review?
    • Of the articles you have written or contributed to, which one might you select as an example of your best work on WN? Which one might you select as the worst example of your work on WN?
    • I’ve left this issue till the end. Recently you seem to have applied for a number of permissions on various wikis (admin on MediaWiki in August, admin on Commons in September, curator on Wikiversity in October, custodian in Wikiversity in December). How do you respond to allegations that you’re hat-collecting and that you are editing at far too high a speed? Please bear in mind that this question is not in itself an allegation.
  • Cheers. Happy New Year. Green Giant (talk) 00:55, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
    @Green Giant: see below:
    1. Inline references are not used in the same way that they are on wikipedia (for example). Inline references are a form of attribution. They should be in the form of prose (from my last article, US House of Representatives impeaches President Trump: "In the immediate aftermath of the vote, CNN reported Jeff Van Drew was expected to leave the Democratic party." - this serves to provide the reader with information about where the sentence was sourced from, and attributes the reporting to CNN). The relevant guideline is at Wikinews:Style guide#Numbered annotations - sources should just be listed at the bottom. Additionally, inline html tags about what source is used for a paragraph or sentence can be added by authors to aid in reviewing. Such comments are not shown to readers and are not required, but are allowed.
    2. Assuming that the article is indeed "with excellent French sources", I would suggest to the author that it be submitted to n:fr:, since generally only content in English is appropriate for publication here (for example, a foreign-language quote, accompanied by translations, can be included). I would fail the review, but encourage the author to pursue it on the French site and/or translate it to English; foreign-language sources are allowed (several were used in Hungarian state-owned enterprise acquires Hirtenberger Defence Group recently), and the same good sources could be used to support an English article. Were the article translated and resubmitted, I would likely leave review to someone more familiar with French.
    3. Articles about the 2016 election are generally no longer in the news (Wikinews:Content guide#What is 'news'?). However, if there were elements of original research, or new developments were presented, then freshness may be preserved. For example, if the article demonstrated that Russian agents stuffed ballot boxes, or if the author interviewed voters to see if they regretted their choices, or some other new angle, then I would continue to review the remaining aspects, being satisfied that freshness was not an issue.
    4. First, if the author was available, I would consult them; I may have missed the quote in the sources (see Talk:Four teenagers shot at Pennsylvania graduation party#Backyard - I included something from a source that the reviewer missed, but was able to point it out and have it restored). Assuming that the author is unavailable, or cannot point to where in the listed sources the quote is, and does not provide an alternative source, I would then have a few options. Adding a source generally disqualifies someone as a reviewer (c.f. User:Pi zero's comment at Talk:Missing New York City chef Andrea Zamperoni found dead#Edits - "adding a source is in itself a classic example of an absolutely involving act"). As a result,
      • If removing the quote, given that it is unsourced, would result in the article being too short to publish, I would fail the review
      • If there are no other issues that require failing the review, and removing the quote wouldn't cause more issues, I would:
        1. Remove the quote
        2. Finish the review
        3. Sight the publication
        4. Restore the quote, and add a new source for it, leaving that edit for another user to sight
      • If the article has other issues that require failing the review, I would leave the quote in (since the article isn't being published yet), and leave a note in the review that it needs to be sourced
    5. If the error is not a factual error (typos, grammatical mistakes, etc.) then the error can be rectified uncontroversially. Otherwise, a {{correction}} notice is used. If the article has already been archived, then Wikinews:Archive conventions#Post-archival edits provides some more instruction.
    6. As a preliminary issue, I'll note that use of pay-walled sources like the New York Times is discouraged; sources should be accessible to all, and paywalled articles are not. See Wikinews:Cite sources#Published sources must be verifiable, as well as discussions at, eg, Talk:Poland: Thousands of far-right nationalists gather in Warsaw to march for white supremacy, anti-liberalism, and anti-Islam on Polish independence day#Paywalled sources, Talk:Ross Edgley swims around Great Britain for first time in history#Deleted as paywalled, Talk:U.S. House issues subpoena to secretary of state as special envoy to Ukraine resigns#Written, Talk:Donald Trump inaugurated as 45th U.S. president#Review of revision 4281364 [Not ready] (and more). Moving on, the biggest issue is likely to be neutrality - policy requires that articles be written without bias. Without an actual article to read, I cannot give a more specific answer, but the biggest issue, based on the description given, would be neutrality.
    7. Depending on what specifically they object to, I could show relevant wikinews policies that support the position I took, elaborate on unclear notes, or explain the review process in more depth (its not just copy-editing before publication, but rather primarily assessing if an article should be published at all)
    8. Best: I'm proud of series of obituaries I have written. While not individually outstanding, I wrote quite a bit and got a fair number published. Individually, I would go with U.S. House issues subpoena to secretary of state as special envoy to Ukraine resigns or U.S. judge orders release of President Trump's tax records, appeals court issues delay - longer articles that I worked on with other users. Worst (that was published): a lot of my early articles were pretty short, Gillibrand ends US presidential bid especially so.
    9. I use the rights that I have. I edit a lot, and am active on multiple sites, which lead me to having rights on multiple sites. In hindsight, the commons rfa was a pretty bad idea; I was nominated without prior notice, and couldn't figure out a good way to decline. I can give a more elaborate answer if you have any specific concerns.
    I hope my answers were clear; let me know if you have any more questions / if I should elaborate on anything. Happy new year, --DannyS712 (talk) 01:54, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Excellent and detailed answers. Each question was intended to probe some policy/guideline/behaviour. I won’t go over them all but Question 6 was indeed about both paywalls and bias. It would be important to have a balanced and unbiased article. Question 9 is based on my observations of two other wikis (Commons and Wikiversity). I didn’t participate in your Commons RFA but it would not have been helpful to gloss over the issue here. Your answer reassures me that you are not hat-collecting. --Green Giant (talk) 02:11, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
  • I have in mind to ask a couple of questions, or so, myself (though I'll need a moment when my neurons have a bit more stretch in them than atm). --Pi zero (talk) 05:29, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
  • I am not completely satisfied with the approach for the 5th question. Reviewer, and the author should go to great lengths to make sure if the supposed error is actually an error, or not. Often times, there are errors in the sources which leads to confusion: the astronomy article published on July 14 2017, about the size of the smallest star, or the date for Zimbabwe's application for the Commonwealth required contacting the Commonwealth and the paper publisher in each case. Best is to ask a veteran what to do, and learn from how they would handle the case.
    •–• 08:44, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
    @Acagastya: to clarify, I was explaining my understanding of policy. Since reviewers cannot edit archived articles, I would not be able to correct such errors myself, and from what I have seen so far, a {{correction}} tag is only used after discussion. --DannyS712 (talk) 08:47, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
    Yes, one should, regardless of they can edit or not, strive to check things thoroughly, especially when an objection is raised.
    •–• 08:51, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
  • Also, regarding answer for #6, sometimes, some information is not available elsewhere. Often reviewers clear cache, use incognito, or use other strategies like using VPN in some cases to bypass the paywall. That is, though not the best way to, but often required when the information drawn from them is very crucial.
    •–• 08:51, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
  • @Acagastya, Pi zero: reminder ping - its been over a week since you both expressed an intention to comment here. Any updates? --DannyS712 (talk) 06:59, 13 January 2020 (UTC)
  •   Question What are your thoughts on the role of writer and reviewer relating to the recently raised concern over article Iraqi Parliament votes for expulsion of United States troops (of January 6)? Keeping in mind, this is an article you wrote and I reviewed. What's your assessment of the outcome? Of your part in it, and of mine? If I had written the same article, and you had reviewed it, would/should things have played out differently? --Pi zero (talk) 18:13, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
    I realize that I missed a key detail in writing that article, and apologize for that. I wrote that article after reading about the expulsion in the news, and the initial coverage I saw discussed US troops only. I would hope that, if I had been the reviewer, I would have approached the article from an uninformed perspective (i.e. not having read about the topic from other sources before hand and letting those sources color my review) and seen in the sources the disagreement regarding the scope of the expulsion. I think the primary responsibility for the mix up lies with me; the review is, of course, supposed to fact check the article, but ultimately the writer is accountable for the content included. Let me know if you want any further elaboration. --DannyS712 (talk) 18:37, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
    We're above the "quiz" level of things here; rather than looking for some "right" answer, I've raised a real unfolding situation to simultaneously observe your reactions and attitude, encourage thoughtfulness, and exchange thoughts (because you are applying to become a junior member of the cabal [note: There Is No Cabal], one of the folk who make these decisions).

    I'd agree a reviewer should look for concerns from an uninformed perspective, while noting a reviewer also has to catch concerns that come from an informed perspective (whatever works).

    I would only half agree (and only half disagree) with your assertion that "ultimately the writer is accountable for the content included". In fact both the reporter and the reviewer are ultimately responsible, and both should be trying to have each other's backs, catching things that the other might miss; it's not a symmetric collaboration, but some things about it are symmetric, and both carry a full load. It's been noted that if anyone ever chose to sue someone over the content of a published Wikinews article, the two people with targets painted on them are the reporter and the reviewer. (Slightly nervous? Good. There's this moment, just before clicking to submit a publishing review, when you wonder: Have I messed up somehow?) --Pi zero (talk) 20:19, 15 January 2020 (UTC)

  •   Question @DannyS712: Consider the files used for this article Ireland votes to overturn 35-year-old constitutional ban on abortion. The author of the article did not take the photos. What are the things you would ensure before publishing such articles? Note: please comment for every media in the article body minus the infobox.
    15.211.153.74 (talk) 09:43, 24 January 2020 (UTC)
    I start by noting that every file provides attribution to the author and states the license that the file is released under. Attribution requires are met. For each file,
    Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:12, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, @DannyS712: Nice observation. But is that all you would check? (Trick question. Maybe not.)
•–• 04:16, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Well, I assumed this question was specifically about what considerations were needed for images. Of course, when images are included in the article, they also need to be relevant and timely (i.e. cannot have been added afterwards in a manner in which prose could not be; Wikinews:Archive conventions#Post-archival edits notes that "Images are considered content". --DannyS712 (talk) 04:36, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Are you sure you are not overlooking something, @DannyS712:?
•–• 08:02, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Most of the {{picture select}} files are missing captions (other than basic attribution; i.e. no description of content). Also, the two images on the side include the cc link outside of the {{image}} template, rendering them as external links, while the ones for the picture select have no such styling. Other than that, I don't see any issues specific to the images that would be present at the time of review. As for the content of the images, the numbers given match the prose, though the prose has commas for the numbers and the image doesn't. The "percentage" image needs sources for the claims it includes, but I haven't done a full review of the article, just of the suitability of the images. If I were reviewing the article myself, I would of course go through the sources and verify each constituency shading, but I'm not. --DannyS712 (talk) 17:39, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
 I wonder if you had noticed this upload, @DannyS712:. I was hoping that incident would lead to you adding a satisfactory answer for the question.
•–• 09:33, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

Sure - local copies are kept to avoid images being overwritten. But, I checked each of the commons files, and none have been edited since the article was published, so it hasn't been an issue. If the files are unstable or being updated, a local copy should be created, but no local version was necessary in this case --DannyS712 (talk) 16:51, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
I think I have given ample opportunities to get to the point, but yet not received satisfactory response.
We don't wait till the file is changed on Commons. Prevention is better than finding the right version and getting things patched up.
It is totally all right to have a local copy of the file which is very likely to be changed. Feel free to ask Commons' admin @Green Giant: about the map in their recent article.
I will provide the rationale in the vote.
•–• 18:08, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Is this the established policy (always uploading a local copy even if it is unlikely to be changed)? If "we don't wait till the file is changed on Commons", why do we allow using commons files, instead of requiring local uploads? Of the articles currently on the main page, 1 has a local file, and 2 (here and here) use commons files. Of the 5 published before that, 1 and 2 use a commons files, and only this uses a local file, which has to be local because it is fair use. In short, out of the last 10 articles, 5 used images that could be on commons, and only 1 of the 5 used a local copy. That one file is indeed likely to be updated on commons, but when such updates are unnecessary, either because of the content of the image itself or because of the age of the images, as was the case with this question here: the images are from an event over a year and a half ago and, while they may have been at risk of updates when first used, no longer face such a risk now. I checked every file on commons for updates, and would have pointed any out, but there were none. --DannyS712 (talk) 19:21, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Also, per Wikinews:Style guide#Changing images, "For ongoing news events, such as the spread of a disease or virus (eg File:H1N1 map.svg), the image hosted on commons will be repeatedly updated. This means that the map on Commons is only accurate for a news article at the time of publication. To avoid this issue, the current map must be downloaded, and reuploaded to Commons with a date stamp in the file name." the article in question here was not about an "ongoing news event", but rather a one-time event. --DannyS712 (talk) 19:24, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
How frequently do you see a street photograph, a portrait or a panorama shot being modified on Commons vs the frequency at which maps and charts are modified?
•–• 19:46, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
Infrequently, and that is my point - they are not frequently modified, and our policy makes no hint regarding uploading local copies. I would have absolutely no objections to doing so, but I resent the accusation that I missed something - it simply isn't a part of policy to, by default, always upload local copies --DannyS712 (talk) 19:49, 4 February 2020 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
 Never said to "always upload local copy". You point misses the fact that on Commons, the files which contain geopolitical boundaries or stats are either victims of edit-warring, or frequent update (despite them being a snapshot in time). There is a greater probability of them to be unstable and hence, it is done as a precaution. You would see admins, and reviewers taking some measures for precaution: though guidelines haven't explicitly stated it. Things keep on changing and one needs to take appropriate measure for that. You "missed something" is not an accusation. The guideline on enwn suggests what to do. Does not mean that is the only thing that you do. That does not stop you from discussing and then taking appropriate steps to avoid a possible conflict. Instead of resenting, you should, imho, take it as: "yes, sometimes we don't know all the things. But I will learn what and why."
•–• 05:41, 5 February 2020 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't understand your comment about the guidelines here. Do you believe that the guidelines suggest that a local version be uploaded in this case? If that is the case, what guideline are you referring to? As for missing something, is it "not an accusation" because it is demonstrable true, or because you didn't intend to imply that I had missed something? --DannyS712 (talk) 06:27, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
  •   Question @DannyS712: For perspective, two questions about this review I did recently of an article you submitted:  (1) Critique my review. If someone else had written the article and you were reviewing it, what would you do the same as, or differently from, what I did?  (2) Critique your writing of the article. --Pi zero (talk) 01:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
    Part 1:
    Your review looks fine overall. I disagree with the last part about specifying a specific source - I do that after writing the article (Special:Diff/4543213), after finding a source to confirm the specific claim made in the sentence. I do that so that, after the reviewer considers each source, the can more easily fact check each claim. The article is written without using specific sources for specific sentences.
    I left the article as Special:Permalink/4543222. Using dupdet for fox news, I see the following potential issues:
    1. "traded to the los angeles lakers" - there are not many ways to note that a player was traded to a team
    2. "in the first round of the" - same issue re options. I would not count "the", for example, as towards a violation, when it is the most commonly used definite article in English
    3. "mvp and the 2008 nba mvp" - technically, the "mvp" at the start of the phrase, in the source, is part of "two time nba finals mvp". In the article, its "4 times as all star mvp". MVP is a common part of the names, and there are only so many ways to list the awards that doesn't have "mvp" as the end of the second to last entry (which is then followed by "and the")
    4. "kobe bryant and four others" - doesn't meet the threshold for violations, 40% is someone's name
    The similarity with NBC that you found was added in Special:Diff/4543229, after my last edit to the article.
    That being said, I was unable to find such a similarity. `"on their way [...] game"` - I cannot find the word "way" in the NBC article at all
    "Don't say things are true, or have not happened; say they were true, and when; say they had not happened and as of when (and be careful in doing so)" - not exactly sure what this is referring to. I would suspect "So far, the Federal Aviation Administration has said the cause is unknown.", but I don't see the article "say[ing] things are true" - it attributes to a source. I should have said "as of Monday evening" or something to better say when thought.
    "Number of people no longer five; our article says both five people and five passengers, which aren't consistent with each other since at least one person on board (the pilot) would not be a passenger. The first sentence of the lede wants some attribution." - the "no longer five" is an issue of timing, and I couldn't have controlled that. As for the disagreement, I should have clarified "Kobe Bryant and four others passengers".
    Part 2:
    Going passed on the version I submitted for review, I agree that the reason for the traveling should have been included, which it wasn't. The disagreement regarding passengers vs total people on board would indeed have been an issue, and the article could not be published before that was resolved. Taken in combination with the borderline copyvio issues, I would likely have failed the article but watched it for resubmission.
    Thanks, --DannyS712 (talk) 02:32, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

VotesEdit

  •   Support based on prompt answers to my questions. Green Giant (talk) 02:12, 1 January 2020 (UTC)

  •   Support based on his answers, I have the impression that he has the mindset to do this job right. - Xbspiro (talk) 13:12, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
  •   Wait There are things that can only be learned by experiencing what it's like to be on the other side of the review template. --Pi zero (talk) 20:19, 15 January 2020 (UTC)
I'm just slowing down here, to consider events as they unfold. --Pi zero (talk) 01:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)
Okay, I'm sticking with "wait". I do maintain there are things one can only learn from experiencing what it's like to be on the other side of the review template —which is why we've wondered for years about providing some sort of "practice review" by non-reviewers, which alas we're still not ready to support the infrastructure for, afaict— but in this case, looking at their submitted articles, I'm not yet comfortable. I've a feeling they're not yet ready to take the plunge. --Pi zero (talk) 13:16, 3 February 2020 (UTC)
  • I am going to   Oppose. Not yet. It isn't the time. There are some key problems I have noticed. In no particular order, they are:
  1. Promoting selective ignorance for certain sections of sources -- Even if there is a 1000-word news source which is used to provide just a single line of information, a reviewer can not and should not skip the rest of the cited source. The author, while writing the article looks for the facts they want to mention: they might easily overlook those sections where the information could be contradicting other sources. It is the duty of the reviewer to not skip any information in the sources. Special:Diff/4543214 highlights the user is yet to understand why such notes have zero benefit. It is one thing to say "This information was available in that source: the xth paragraph". That helps the reviewer. But the other way around shows lack of complete understanding of the review process.
  2. Failure to identify the issues with chart media -- the most important reason to oppose is the question I had asked above, regarding the image where there is some sort of statistics involved. I asked them to answer for "all the media files", which was as a real life scenario where there are a bunch of images in a news article, and the reviewer has to compete against time and publish things quickly. The editor was stumbling upon the image caption and credit and license links when that wasn't the most important thing. A file is a content and it is important to have that checked as well. I was hoping the editor would finally say something about fact-checking the numbers in the plot. It is crucial that one ensures errors don't flow in from there. It adds a great deal of complexity when reviewing. And even after asking repeatedly, this was never highlighted. Something a reviewer must not overlook.
  3. Not looking at the long term situation -- in the above discussion, the editor said it wasn't necessary to have a local copy of a file because there weren't any newer versions of the file on wmc. However, just yesterday (depending on your time zone), we saw that some files do indeed change over time even when people had their best efforts to make it as a snapshot in time. (Special:Diff/4544806) One needs to consider the case of edit-warring that can cause conflicts. One needs more experience to think and prevent possible conflicts.
  4. Failure to avoid plagiarism -- Kobe Bryant's obit article's first review comments Special:Diff/4543267 points out the editor is still in the phase where they can't completely write a synthesis which is distant from the source. Sometimes, it is difficult, and we think: there is no other way. But with more experience, you find stronger commitment to not have the issue where things are too similar to the source. One of the ways to ensure that is to maintain a journal, write down facts from the sources, and then to write an article: not type, but write. This also helps one connect at a deeper level with the article, that old articles you wrote three years ago: you would still remember significant parts of it (helps when you need to use old articles for a new one). And more importantly, when you write, it is less likely one makes logical errors in the article, which the lede of that article had.
I strongly suggest the editor to communicate with the reviewers in real time when articles are being reviewed: so they learn from the thought process. It greatly helps learning so much about the role. But there are important concerns about the vision which points there are important reviewer traits the user is yet to pick up. The way a user treats the source, the degree of quality check for information in all forms, hunch for the possible issues in future, commitment to distancing from the source and avoiding errors are important assets of a reviewer.
•–• 19:36, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
@Acagastya: please note
  1. I was not promoting "selective ignorance" - as I explained, I add source notes "so that, after the reviewer considers each source, the can more easily fact check each claim. The article is written without using specific sources for specific sentences." - what I meant was to provide context about what specific paragraphs provide support for claims, not to suggest that the whole article shouldn't be read.
  2. "As for the content of the images, the numbers given match the prose, though the prose has commas for the numbers and the image doesn't. The "percentage" image needs sources for the claims it includes, but I haven't done a full review of the article, just of the suitability of the images. If I were reviewing the article myself, I would of course go through the sources and verify each constituency shading, but I'm not." - I explicitly noted the need to fact-check the numbers in the plot, in contrast with your claim that it "was never highlighted"
  3. Please see my comment above regarding local images - I do not believe your response here that I should have suggested uploading local copies aligns with the style guide's recommendation that files be uploaded to commons and a local copy created for "ongoing news events"
  4. As I noted above, two of the five potential violations were false positives, and a third was not added by me, nor could I confirm that there was indeed a violation ("That being said, I was unable to find such a similarity. `"on their way [...] game"` - I cannot find the word "way" in the NBC article at all"). The other two, I still maintain that the terms "los angeles lakers" being 60% of the first possible violation suggests that it isn't actually a violation in terms of 4 or more words, and that the second phrase is just extremely common.
I'm not going to ask you to reconsider, but (and as I've noted elsewhere) I'm disappointed that so much institutional knowledge appears to differ from the official policies and guidelines. --DannyS712 (talk) 19:45, 4 February 2020 (UTC)
1. There is a way of saying it. As I mentioned, if you were to say "This line from the article: you can find it here in XYZ source, it was no obvious to find it", that is okay. But saying "only the 7th para of XYZ source was used" implies selective ignorance.
2. The intent to ask about the media was not for the suitability (wouldn't we have thought about it before publishing?). It was to know how exactly would you verify. The comma was the least of the problems, as it is just another way of representing. The question was about how would you make sure the shades of blue were accurate. That is what I wanted to see. How you would verify the shades are not too dark or too light. Alas, I never heard from you the measures you would go to ensure the accuracy.
3. Guideline does not say a lot of things, that does not mean you won't do something that is needed, but not mentioned.
4. Reviewer can see more than the dupdet. That said, I personally think you can do better, and improve in future. We learn every day. There are things we don't know. Happened to me, yesterday. But there is a set of things one should know before getting reviewer bits: and distancing from source is indeed one of those things.
That said, I hope you communicate with the reviewer reviewing your articles, when they are reviewing, to learn about various things, reasons why we do them, and things where the article could be improved on (which we often know while reviewing, but forget while writing review comments).
Take this as "not yet", rather than "not now, never". Few things are missing. Does not mean you wouldn't ever get them.
•–• 05:36, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
Re:
  1. That was not my intention, and in the future I'll be more careful regarding my phrasing to avoid others inferring that I was suggesting selective ignorance
  2. It was very much unclear that "It was to know how exactly would you verify" - I noted that the content needed to be verified, but wasn't asked (from what I understood) about how I would perform such a verification. Would you like me to explain how I would verify the content of the images, either for the article in question or for another?
  3. "Guideline does not say a lot of things, that does not mean you won't do something that is needed, but not mentioned." - if the guideline explicitly says to use a local copy in some situations, it implies that no such local copy is needed in others. This doesn't mean that I "won't do something that is needed", it just doesn't appear to have been needed! You yourself wrote that article, after you became a reviewer - if a local copy was indeed "something that is needed", why was no local copy used? I'm not sure how it could not have been needed then, but is needed now?
  4. I agree that there is more to copyright violation detection than dupdet, and only use it to check for the "rule of 4"
I understand that you mean this as a "not yet", but I don't see exactly what you are saying is "missing" - the policy implies that local files aren't needed here and the question regarding verification of the contents was never clear to begin with, and so I didn't answer a question I was unaware was being asked. --DannyS712 (talk) 06:37, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
  •   Support I'm not sure what's the big deal here. DannyS712 may make proper use of the tools. I mean, if they mess up, there is always a community to help out and solve whatever it's wrong. --Diego Grez Cañete (talk) 19:03, 5 February 2020 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Recently closed requestsEdit

The following discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
  • Too soon. The candidate agrees they are not ready to become a reviewer but hopefully will try again when they’ve gained more experience. -Green Giant (talk) 00:57, 12 January 2020 (UTC)

Seemplez (talk · contribs – Edit rights)Edit

I am, rather tentatively, putting myself up for Reviewer. I have been editing for three months, have written as many articles that have passed review and mainly do WikiGnome tasks like adding abandoned and delete tags. I know English spelling and grammar rules, and am familliar with enwn policies. Thank you for any comments, support, or constructive criticism in advance. Seemplez 10:08, 18 December 2019 (UTC)

CommentsEdit

  • @Seemplez: Thank you for putting your name forward. I like your enthusiasm but you have only been active on Wikinews since September 2019 and have made 176 edits on Wikinews. I don’t feel you have had enough experience of Wikinews to be effective at reviewing. To give you some examples of the challenges faced by reviewers, I’ve compiled a list of questions I might ask a candidate for the reviewer permission:
    • What style of inline references are acceptable in a Wikinews article?
    • There is a proposed Wikinews article put up for review and it is written in French with excellent French sources? How would you review it and why?
    • A new user puts up a news article about the 2016 US Presidential election. How would you review it and why?
    • A Wikinews article you are reviewing uses a quotation of three sentences spoken by a famous actor, but the sentences don’t appear in the sources in the WN article. You know of a different source that quotes those three sentences. Should you add it as a source?
    • You’ve reviewed a WN article about a crucial part of the Brexit process and published it on 28 January 2020, just days before Brexit. A week later someone points out an error in the article. What do you do about it?
    • There is a new WN article to be reviewed. It is about alleged Kremlin interference (ordered by President Putin himself) in the forthcoming US elections in 2020. It is very well written with a dozen paragraphs, in the correct style, with no copyright problems and is very newsworthy, citing the Washington Post, the New York Times, CNN, Fox News and NBC, all quoting senior intelligence officials and the White House. What issues might you raise about this article that might be pertinent to WN policies?
  • You don’t have to answer any of the questions but I hope it gives an idea of what we are looking for, although other users may have further criteria to judge a candidacy against. I think a few months more experience, with several published (and unpublished) articles will prepare you for reviewer. --Green Giant (talk) 23:54, 28 December 2019 (UTC)
@Green Giant: Sorry for the wait. I agree, I am more inexperienced than most. I'll reapply in 6months or so. Seemplez 12:33, 31 December 2019 (UTC)
@Seemplez: I've been thinking I'd tend to add to GG's questions something about WN:Neutrality and something about how to handle the threshold where a reviewer would have to disqualify themselves from review (where the threshold is, how to not cross it, and when [and how] to cross it). --Pi zero (talk) 01:08, 1 January 2020 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page, such as the current discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


Removal of Reviewer statusEdit

Post requests here regarding any user who you consider has abused editor status. Provide a justification for the removal, preferably providing examples of where the privilege has been abused. Note for this section, support (or remove) indicates you believe the user should have the privilege withdrawn, oppose (or keep) indicates you believe they should retain the privilege.

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