Talk:Wikimedian blocked globally for 'trolling' Hong Kong journalists
Review of revision 4797962 [Not ready]
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Revision 4797962 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 11:39, 15 September 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: The article is about a fresh event. The event is related to actions by WMF which makes them harder to establish relevance. The material is presented in confusing and unstructured way. Please see comments below. The following issues prevent the article from being published, and it is required to resolve them:
See also: WN:WMFNEWS. Please resolve the above issues. To request assistance, please click the "Ask" link below. Thanks. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews. |
Revision 4797962 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 11:39, 15 September 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: The article is about a fresh event. The event is related to actions by WMF which makes them harder to establish relevance. The material is presented in confusing and unstructured way. Please see comments below. The following issues prevent the article from being published, and it is required to resolve them:
See also: WN:WMFNEWS. Please resolve the above issues. To request assistance, please click the "Ask" link below. Thanks. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews. |
- @Gryllida: Grateful for your review. It seems this article should be divided into two: to address the allegations by the HKJA and to analysis the mastermind behind. This would be a significant expansion and improvement so it will take some time. I shall let you know when it is ready. Cheers. Cypp0847 (talk) 11:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Hi Cypp0847. It may be best to start short. Three paragraphs would suffice. At least two independent sources are required. And article cannot be one-sided, it needs to represent coverage from both sides of the conflict if possible. (If you bring someone constructive from an English Wikipedia's Hong Kong WikiProject to help you here, I'll give you a cookie.) Regards, Gryllida (talk) 12:08, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
English translation
editEnglish translation of the thewitnesshk article:
HKJA: At least 13 media outlets and dozens of journalists and their families subjected to "systematic" harassment; police report filed over incidents
The Hong Kong Journalists Association (HKJA) held a press conference on Friday (13th) to report that their investigation found dozens of journalists and their families were harassed in various ways between June and August this year, including receiving anonymous threatening or complaint letters and being doxxed online. The affected individuals come from at least 13 media outlets and two journalism education institutions, including HKJA executive committee members.
Among them, 15 people's family members and employers received anonymous complaint letters claiming to be from "patriots"; 8 journalists' addresses, their landlords or neighbors received threatening or complaint letters; at least 36 journalists were "named" online, with some accused of publishing seditious articles; 3 people had their luggage searched by customs when entering Hong Kong recently, and 2 of them received anonymous threatening messages immediately after entry.
HKJA Chairperson Yeung Kai-yu described this as the largest known "systematic" harassment targeting Hong Kong journalists, seriously interfering with press freedom. There are also concerns about leakage of personal data held by the government being exploited by lawbreakers. The HKJA and some journalists have filed police reports and complained to the Privacy Commissioner's Office over the incidents.
13 media outlets affected
According to the HKJA's investigation, the harassment incidents against journalists occurred between June and August this year, with harassment becoming more frequent in mid to late August, affecting dozens of journalists from at least 13 international and local media outlets, as well as 2 journalism education institutions, including independent media, Hong Kong Free Press, Citizen News, etc. Some of those targeted are HKJA executive committee members.
Anonymous complaints sent to family members, landlords, etc. Some allege connections to journalists or national security threats
The HKJA counted at least 15 journalists whose family members, their organizations or employers, and partner organizations received anonymous complaint emails and letters claiming to be from "patriots" since June this year.
Yeung pointed out that the pattern of these complaint letters is similar, targeting the identity and institutional characteristics of the complainant to intimidate them. For example, some complaints are made anonymously under the guise of parents or readers, with some directly demanding the dismissal of journalists or their family members, or investigations into whether there were any violations; some also allege that associating with the relevant individuals may endanger national security and violate "Article 23".
Yeung said at least 8 journalists' addresses, their landlords, and even neighbors on the same floor received physical threatening or complaint letters; 3 other harassed individuals had their luggage searched by customs when entering Hong Kong recently, with two receiving anonymous WhatsApp threatening messages immediately after entry.
36 journalists "named" online Some contain violent and death threat images
Additionally, according to HKJA's tally, since August this year, Facebook users have been posting anti-media and anti-journalist content in various groups, such as accusing journalists' articles of inciting subversion. At least 36 journalists from different organizations were "named"; others published Facebook posts or modified Wikipedia content, including pictures of HKJA executive committee members and others. Some pictures contained knives, blood, shooting targets and the Chinese character for "offerings to the deceased", constituting violent and death threats.
Yeung Kai-yu pointed out that some pictures were repeatedly posted by certain users in different groups, and some journalists would receive threatening messages through other channels before and after the pictures were published; Yeung also said that most of the users posting these pictures became active starting from May this year, with profile pictures obtained from the internet or AI-generated images, describing the harassment tactics as coming from the same playbook.
Yeung said that after the HKJA provided evidence to Meta and Wikipedia, both companies have launched investigations. One Wikipedia user was found to have used multiple accounts to post journalists' personal information on Wikipedia entries, and that account has now been banned. She said the HKJA has preliminarily identified the person and has filed complaints with the police and the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data over the incidents.
Yeung: Most HKJA executive committee members harassed Organizations employing their family members received complaint letters
Yeung Kai-yu also pointed out that most HKJA executive committee members received harassing messages, including herself and her family members. Yeung revealed that organizations employing two of her family members received anonymous complaints, accusing them of "instilling anti-China and disruptive Hong Kong thoughts" and "moral corruption" in Yeung, demanding the organizations take it seriously, investigate and take action against her family members. Fortunately, the organizations ignored it.
Yeung criticized the email content as completely fabricated, while urging organizations receiving similar messages not to take actions that violate procedural justice or even the Employment Ordinance against their employees due to fabricated content.
Harassers obtained family member names, phone numbers, etc. HKJA concerned about government personal data leakage
The HKJA said there is currently no evidence showing the harassment incidents are related to officials, but since the relevant actions involve journalists' family member names, phone numbers, addresses and other information that cannot be easily and legally obtained, they also hope law enforcement can explain why some journalists received threatening messages shortly after entering Hong Kong, raising concerns about leakage of personal data held by the government being exploited by lawbreakers.
Yeung said the HKJA and some journalists have filed police reports over the harassment, as well as complaints with the Privacy Commissioner, hoping law enforcement will thoroughly investigate to protect press work from harassment and threats.
Yeung also said some harassed journalists are freelancers, and the criticized coverage includes general news topics such as Taiwan's election and Japan's seafood import ban. She does not believe the harassment is targeting specific organizations or coverage, but the journalist community as a whole. She called on media organizations to strengthen protection of employee work safety.
Cheuk-hay Yip: Didn't notice HKJA statement while in meeting Affected individuals can make police reports
Hong Kong Free Press and Hong Kong Independent Media each issued statements confirming their staff members were harassed. The HKFP statement revealed that the editor-in-chief's landlord and real estate agent received anonymous complaints last week containing defamatory allegations and threatening content. The editor-in-chief has filed a police report over the incident. HKIM also said one staff member received harassing messages involving personal information and has filed a police report over the incident.
Security Bureau Deputy Secretary Cheuk-hay Yip told reporters after a Fight Crime Committee meeting on Friday that since he was in the meeting, he had not noticed the HKJA statement. But he emphasized that Hong Kong is a society of rule of law, and no one should be subjected to threats, insults and harassment. Affected individuals can report to law enforcement. Cheuk-hay Yip also said he has not yet received any reports about government data leaks and is unclear why the HKJA made such an allegation. Kitabc12345 (talk) 07:59, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
- Furthermore, there was an English version of press release from HKJA [1] fyi. SCP-2000 (talk) 12:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Chinese Wikimedian？
editFlamelai is a Hong Konger [2]. Akishima Yuka (talk) 09:12, 16 September 2024 (UTC)
Reporter's notes
editFew notes for the report:
- Global account log at Wikimedia Meta-Wiki can be found here
- Contribution log of
- Mtrstation at here, which shows edits on The Collective (at draft page) and on Ronson Chan (hidden now); and here on Bao Choy
- Yolander617 at here, which shows edits on a student activist
- Benson101992 at here, which shows edits on The Witness (hidden as well)
- Japanodanobunaga at here, which shows edits on Inmedia (hidden)
- Collect520 at here, also on Bao Choy
- Block of Flamelai on enwiki at here
- Block of Flamelai on zhwiki at here
Review of revision 4798434 [Not ready]
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Revision 4798434 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 10:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: Good writeup with summary in first paragraph. Main issues is presentation of what seems to be opinion -- needs to be attributed and worded carefully; some paragraphs need to be merged; and I have concerns about establishing newsworthiness. With everything addressed the newsworthiness issue would still remain. "Someone was banned on a website and started a fork" does not look like affecting many users, while the HKJA background is making this look a bit more relevant. The question is whether this is sufficient. I would like to get input about this from another reviewer. Major notes:
Minor notes:
Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews. |
Revision 4798434 of this article has been reviewed by Gryllida (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 10:58, 21 September 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: Good writeup with summary in first paragraph. Main issues is presentation of what seems to be opinion -- needs to be attributed and worded carefully; some paragraphs need to be merged; and I have concerns about establishing newsworthiness. With everything addressed the newsworthiness issue would still remain. "Someone was banned on a website and started a fork" does not look like affecting many users, while the HKJA background is making this look a bit more relevant. The question is whether this is sufficient. I would like to get input about this from another reviewer. Major notes:
Minor notes:
Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews. |
Help with newsworthiness
edit@Acagastya, @Bddpaux, @Heavy Water, @Michael.C.Wright (and anyone I may have missed), could you please advise whether the story would pass NPOV and newsworthiness, and freshness, after the above points are addressed? Thanks.
@Cypp0847, please see comments above and please do not hesitate to ask questions if needed.
Regards, Gryllida (talk) 11:04, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Gryllida: Thanks for the review. Let's wait for the comments by the seniors on the newsworthiness first. Cypp0847 (talk) 07:21, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- I am not a senior reviewer. There may not be many who are active at the moment.
- My opinion is that we are in need of published content for readers to consume and therefore we can be a bit lenient on newsworthiness. In this case, I believe this article is newsworthy enough. But bigger issues must be corrected.
- As Gryllida has mentioned; statements of conjecture such as "...seen as the last prominent opposition-friendly media..." must either be attributed or removed. Who see's Inmedia that way? —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 14:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Michael.C.Wright@Gryllida@Cypp0847 This last famous media that is friendly to the opposition has a source. For details, see Talk:Press_union_revealed_largest_‘harassment’_campaign_against_Hong_Kong_journalists#Continue_this_work。 Kitabc12345 (talk) 18:30, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not in a position to assess neutrality, and wouldn't be unless and until I reviewed the article. We do have a longstanding rule (it's even mentioned in WN:Newsworthiness) articles about Wikimedia are held to a higher standard of relevance. I'd say the WMF ban is less likely to meet the newsworthiness threshold (someone got banned by the nonprofit that supports a website) compared to the HKJA report (Hong Kong journalists were allegedly harassed across several websites — which more directly affects the real world), and therefore I agree with Gryllida's suggestion to change the focal event to the HKJA report. The article can and should still discuss the WMF ban, but it should do so further down the inverted pyramid that forms its structure.
- As Michael was saying, we just describe how a media outlet is "seen" because that's a non-neutral assessment of its reputation; what we can do is say that someone else said it (someone else who is not another journalist, since we don't report on other journalists' opinions in the same way we don't report on our own). Heavy Water (talk) 04:17, 23 September 2024 (UTC)
- @Michael.C.Wright@Gryllida@Cypp0847 This last famous media that is friendly to the opposition has a source. For details, see Talk:Press_union_revealed_largest_‘harassment’_campaign_against_Hong_Kong_journalists#Continue_this_work。 Kitabc12345 (talk) 18:30, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
- There is the fragrance of navel gazing attached to this one too. Not 100% sure, but I think this article itself has a pinch of trolling built into it.--Bddpaux (talk) 16:41, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
- As Gryllida has mentioned; statements of conjecture such as "...seen as the last prominent opposition-friendly media..." must either be attributed or removed. Who see's Inmedia that way? —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 14:00, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
Stale
editThe article went stale while waiting for a review, unfortunately. If there is more recent news coverage for the event, the article can be refocused on the newest event and resubmitted for review. We call this gatwicking and you can read about it here: WN:Gatwicking. —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 17:25, 26 September 2024 (UTC)
Original reporting notes
edit- @Michael.C.Wright@Bddpaux@Gryllida@Heavy Water@Cypp0847
- 寄件人: Selina Cheng <selinacheng.work@gmail.com>
- 日期: 2024年10月16日 上午9:53:45 [GMT+8]
- 收件人: kitabc12345@outlook.com
- Hello kit, Apologies for the delayed response, My answers below In case it is still useful.
- Selina
- 在 2024年10月5日週六 下午2:05，HKJA <hkja@hkja.org.hk> 寫道：
- ---------- Forwarded message ---------
- 寄件者： Svetlana Tkachenko <svetlana_tkachenko@wn-reporters.org>
- Date: 2024年10月5日週六 下午1:49
- Subject: Message from Svetlana Tkachenko
- To: <hkja@hkja.org.hk>
- 從我的iPad傳送
- 以下為轉寄郵件：
- 寄件人: Wong Hin Kit <kitabc12345@outlook.com>
- 日期: 2024年10月4日 下午8:14:57 [GMT+8]
- 收件人: hkja@hkja.org.hk
- 標題: Enquiries on harassment against Hong Kong journalists
-
- Dear Sir/Madam,
- In light of the press release dated on 13 September, on behalf of the Wikinews reporter's team, may I kindly enquire further information in relation to the harassment faced by Hong Kong journalists.
- 1. How many individuals in total were targeted in this harassment campaign?
- We estimate that almost 20 journalists were harassed between June and August this year using different tactics.
- 2. How many cases were referred to the authorities, including the police and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner for Personal Data, and if there are any updates.
- We know of four individuals who reported to police and three individuals who reported to the privacy commissioner.
- Police told us that they have established a team under the Crimes Unit to follow up on these cases.
- 3. Is the HKJA planning on further actions, such as reporting more cases to the police.
- No further action planned.
- 4. What is the HKJA's reaction on the comments made by the government?
- We are reassured that security offices safe that nobody in Hong Kong, including journalists, should be subject to harassment and threats. We welcome investigations by police and by the privacy commissioner.
- 5. Are journalists receiving less threats following the exposure?
- We have not heard new reports of harassment since then or any attempt to retaliate. We believe that the wave of harassment has subsided after HKJA and government officials spoke out against such egregious behavior.
- 6. Is there any statistics on harassments against journalists in the past years?
- No but we believe this is the first time such a large number of reporters in Hong Kong bexame targets of harassment and intimidation.
- These information will be published online at https://en.wikinews.org/ as a follow-up report on the reports of intimidation which caught the attention of foreign outlets. Thank you for your help and I very much look forward to your reply.
- Kind regards,
- Kit Wong Kitabc12345 (talk) 10:05, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- I wanted to update you on a recent discussion between Cypp0847 and me regarding some information we received.
- 1. Cypp0847 pointed out that only specific pieces of information are useful, and he noted a response was prepared but not sent a day earlier. He/she and I concern that following up might be too outdated, as the issue seems to have subsided.
- I mentioned that the initial questions didn’t allow for additional input, and we might need to consult the English admin about the originality and relevance of the responses.
- I suggested we consider deeper interviews for better quality reporting, and I’m planning to reach out to the admin to confirm if the simple responses can still be considered timely news.
- I also think a Zoom meeting with the press association president could help us gather more substantial material, but I’m a bit uncertain about my interviewing skills in that context.
- I’ll keep you posted on any developments!
- Journalists' Association Announces First Large-Scale Harassment of Reporters
- Personal Information of Hong Kong Journalists Posted on Wikipedia; Trolling Accusations
- Wikimedian Blocked Globally for 'Trolling' Hong Kong Journalists
- Interview with Wikipedia Administrators
- Association Responds with No New Information
- The remaining issue concerns the harassment of media personnel in Hong Kong under the National Security Law by pro-China individuals. Experts will likely point to this law as a significant factor in these events.
- One angle could be to seek interviews with the harassed journalists. I haven’t seen any public interviews with those who have been harassed, so this would provide new material, as there hasn’t been any follow-up on this issue by the media in Hong Kong.
- Another angle is to approach the harassers and ask why they feel the need to target journalists.
- We could also gather comments from other media professionals regarding these incidents, including what may have triggered them.
- The former association president, Ronson Ron Sing Chan, only discussed how he survives in Hong Kong's new media environment in his BBC documentary, so we could explore that perspective as well. Kitabc12345 (talk) 10:51, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- In the future, it is important when contacting sources for interviews or information that you not present yourself as a representative of Wikinews, per WN:OR:
Since Wikinews has no, strict, formal approval process for authors, when contacting sources, you must represent yourself as an independent author/researcher, not as a 'representative' of Wikinews.
- —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 15:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)
- Okay, email is writing by Cypp0847. I just copped to send HKJA. Kitabc12345 (talk) 15:30, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- Is there any reviewer who would be willing to publish it after we add some material following an interview with the HKJA chairperson, Selina Cheng? I feel that this work is clearly original reporting, with important exclusive material. If it is not published directly, that would be a real shame. Perhaps the page should be kept until there are new developments, such as an arrest by the police. Or if we could interview some Hong Kong journalists/HKJA, that might be better, even if there are no new events happening. Because I believe that these are things that can become news events in themselves, including exclusive interviews with Wikipedia administrators. I kindly request that you do not delete the page or put it in the "Prepared" section. I believe the following policy also applies here: Original material can also enhance freshness. Exclusive content has the potential to extend our freshness horizon by days or even weeks, depending on the nature of the original material. Note however this is an advanced technique and it is strongly recommended editors get to grips with writing before graduating to original reporting. Becoming the news. Sometimes, original material will be an event in its own right. This might be in the form of an exclusive interview with somebody important, or it may mean the release of documents exclusively to Wikinews. Though even this will eventually go stale, there is great leeway in timeframes for releasing such material. Kitabc12345 (talk) 15:40, 19 October 2024 (UTC)
- —Michael.C.Wright (Talk/Published) 15:15, 17 October 2024 (UTC)