StuRat, welcome to Wikinews! I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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Pentagon story


Hi! Thanks for your contributions to the story. You efforts seriously improved it. I don't think I'm alone saying that I also appreciate the comments you made on the discussion page.

Friendly word of warning though... try not to get argumentative there. These talk pages are good for that... or IRC link at top of 'Main Page' (note, you won't find PaulRevere2005 there). Note: I did not get the impression PaulRvere2005 was direcing any comment to you, until you replied to him... he love's a debate! Best Regards :) Edbrown05 02:25, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

  • Thanks for the compliment !
  • As for not being argumentative, I managed to restrain myself from suggesting that the person who called me an idiot do something physically impossible, LOL.
  • I don't quite understand what you mean by "you won't find PaulRevere2005 there".
  • I think we need a separate "flame board" for each article, where people can list their conspiracy theories, etc., so they don't clutter up the page where we discuss possible changes to the article.
  • Ok, I thought he was replying to my comment on the timing of the news conference being coincidental with Iran's restart of nuclear processing, but I was apparently mistaken. StuRat 07:55, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Reply
I meant by the IRC Chat comment that, "you won't find PaulRevere2005 there". I does not participate there.
A flame page! speechless :)!! (! nah)
-Edbrown05 14:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Seriously, you found the Pentagon transcript. I came here immediately after noticing your post on the discussion page. I searched in vain for a transcript and was giving up, thinking --> wtf? I'll look into it now. (i'm not religious) Bless you for finding it. -Edbrown05 14:17, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

You're quite welcome. StuRat 20:52, 11 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Why were you deleting content from Wikinews?


Hello. With this edit: http://en.wikinews.org/w/index.php?title=Fiddle_Legend_Vassar_Clements_dead_at_77&diff=124828&oldid=124804 You removed a big chunk of a Wikinews story without explanation as to why the content was deleted. Another editor has reverted this deletion since it appeared unwarranted. -- Davodd | Talk 21:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

I believe I did explain it in the comment. The part that was news (his death) was left in the news article. The part that was NOT news (his life story) was moved into a Wikipedia entry and a link was added under his name. This way all that info will still be available after the news story fades. It is also important to avoid redundant entries under Wikinews and the Wikipedia, as this would require each change take place in two places. StuRat 21:34, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Reply
Thanks for the quick response. :-) -- Davodd | Talk 22:50, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the kudos!



Thanks for the kind words and help. Since it was a feature article, I reverted it to the original feature length.

When I have the opportunity, I'll work on his wiki entry. The iBook story was a total rewrite because it was so blown out of proportion by the media. Note the Richmond.com story; it was wholly different, and not at all alarmist. (Remember, the sky is falling! *LOL*) Kevin L. Bardon 22:25, 17 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Football vs. Soccer



I noticed that you moved Igor Novakovic returns to NK Rijeka to Croatian soccer player Igor Novakovic returns from Russia.

It is generally an unwritten rule that we call football (a game in which you kick the ball with a foot most of the time) - football, and that we use "American football" for what Americans call football. There is no policy on this, so you can use either one (though it's probably not a good idea to change from football to soccer, but you didn't do it, so no problems there).

However, reasoning for calling football - football, is that most of the planet calls it that way (e.g. football in the commonwealth, Fußball in German, fudbal in Serbian, футбол in Russian, etc. And we do tend to be an international news source, that happens to be in English :)

Like I said, it's not an official policy, and I don't want to force you into doing anything, but it's just a short FYI. --Dčabrilo 10:23, 21 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the comment. The reason for the change is that soccer only has one meaning, while football is ambiguous, and I didn't want to call it "un-American football", LOL. While it's true that only a small fraction of the Earth calls it soccer, it's a fairly large portion of the English speaking world, including the US and Canada, and the English speaking world is the audience here. In the article itself, I used both terms, to make it readable by the widest possible audience. In an unrelated issue, when you only have a Croatian source, this makes it difficult to verify or add to the article, as most of us don't read Croatian. Do you know of a site where we can get a free machine translation to English ? StuRat 10:41, 21 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Croatian sources


Unfortunately, there is no usable translation (such as google translator, or altavista's babelfish) for Croatian (or most other languages for that matter). The particular article (football/soccer one), doesn't have any sources at all, iirc. Generally, if you need verification for Slavic languages, feel free to contact me (check out my userpage to see which languages I can be able to help with), but of course, there is no good way to check my own edits :) We do get people who speak all kinds of languages here every once in a while, so we are still "safe". --Dčabrilo 12:18, 21 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Missing article


The article is published, but under August 17. --Dčabrilo 20:37, 21 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Cats on Hotel quarantined after anthrax scare in US state of Michigan


I've put back the cat's on the article Hotel quarantined after anthrax scare in US state of Michigan, which is basically what I have on task to do for tomorrow (is to start the cat's for MI). --Mrmiscellanious 21:25, 27 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

  • Yes, we have one lazy reporter there (myself, naturally) :). I have a few other articles for the cat. that were made before all this portal ordeal was created, so I'll have to add them a little later :). --Mrmiscellanious 21:36, 27 August 2005 (UTC)Reply



Hi Stu... please fix up redirects when you rename pages... e.g. New South Wales Police Commissioner says activist groups are 'trained to disrupt and undermine'. - Borofkin 09:56, 29 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

I didn't see a problem with a redirect, did I miss something ? StuRat 10:26, 29 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

Stu, when you moved the page today, changing Sydney prepares for Forbes Conference and 30A Protest to Sydney, Australia prepares for Forbes Conference and free trade protest, you didn't fix up the redirects. When you move a page like that, you need to edit every page which redirects to that page, and update it with the new location of the article. You can find out what pages redirect to an article by clicking "What links here" in the toolbox at the side. See Help:Renaming (moving) a page. I've moved it back, because "free trade protest" is innacurate. - Borofkin 04:30, 30 August 2005 (UTC)Reply

So they are protesting 30As ? WTF does that mean ??? StuRat 07:43, 30 August 2005 (UTC)Reply



I really like the semantic of "Global" for here, vs. (blah) -World-. If there are so many local stories coming in at Wikinews that an editting task of tagging stories with [[Category:Local only]] became a chore, then the use of [[Category:Global]] makes sense to me. -Edbrown05 05:31, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

I like that Little Ceasar's story. And I once and a while buy one! :) Edbrown05 05:34, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

I'm thinkin', that if there is a left column 'Navigation' box with a listing "Browse by section", and a right column Top Box doing basically the same thing.... and then simultaneously thinkin' that most 'Original reporting' stories are very local.... then why not have a Top Box right column for 'Local news' that is dynamically populated like the 'Original reporting' box is. -Edbrown05 05:47, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

What would be the semantic name for a box that contains stories that are not "Global"? -Edbrown05 05:50, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply
Of course, if people go to "local news", they want to see stories that are local to THEM, not local to someone in Tibet. This would require that every story be marked with a specific location and that every user have the locations that interest them recorded somewhere, and some software to bring it all together. Sounds rather ambitious to me. How about "Nonglobal" for stories that aren't of global interest, which could be local stories, national stories, or international stories that only affect 2 countries. StuRat 06:07, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply
Yeah. Picking out of your post --> and some software <-- like customizing your local news. -Edbrown05
You really hit it right StuRat with the objection to a Top Right box with supposively local news when here it is "Global". Hmmm. -Edbrown05 06:28, 1 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

are you there still?


hi sturat, if you're still online can you take a look at 'a truer nagin'. it's just been published and is too big for me to work on. I think it needs a little more time in development, to say the least :) ClareWhite (no tildes)

Ok, in about an hour I'll take a look, can you provide a link here please ? StuRat 16:03, 9 September 2005 (UTC)Reply
I looked at it, and it's unpublishable garbage, IMO. See my comments on it's talk page. StuRat 16:53, 9 September 2005 (UTC)Reply
BTW, why don't you like to use tildes to make an active link and include a timestamp ? StuRat 16:56, 9 September 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for doing that! It's not that I don't like to use tildes - I love them - but I often edit from a Treo phone which has a limited keyboard, so I can only use tildes (and bracketty things) by copying and pasting or digging out the proper keyboard. Which is too tedious to do or even relate :) ClareWhite 16:01, 12 September 2005 (UTC)Reply



we have a new english contestant. Can you aprove his articles?--cyper 23:14, 18 October 2005 (UTC)Reply

FSM material


Have you read the talk page of that article? Although the FSM material *is* important to the general story, it is not relevant to that particular article's angle - the decision by the NSES to withhold copyright. Please read the talk page and consider. - Amgine / talk 00:11, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

I will. There was no comment from the anon I/P who removed the material which would lead me to believe the removal was the result of any discussion, however. StuRat 00:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Ok, I've read the discussion page and don't see any consensus for removal of the FSM material. StuRat 00:57, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Or to keep it. - Amgine / talk 00:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
On the contrary, by my reading, the division on the talk page breaks down like so:
Delete FSM Material - Amgine
Keep FSM Material - StuRat,JWSchmidt,vonbergm
I call 75% a consensus to keep it. StuRat 01:10, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

I also don't explain what the American Association for the Advancement of Science is. Instead, I provide a link to something which does. That's because this is background information, not the main story. - Amgine / talk 01:41, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

That title pretty much says what it's purpose is, while Flying Spaghetti Monster says nothing of it's purpose. If it's name was the "Monster to fight attempts at teaching Creationism, in any disguise, in public schools by exposing the foolishness of teaching ones personal religous beliefs as science", then you might have a valid point. StuRat 01:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Wikinews is not advocacy. It's news. - Amgine / talk 01:51, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Yes, and news demands that ALL sides of the story be told. This is one side of the story. StuRat 01:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
No. It demands that all relevant questions be answered. You have not provided a single reason this must be a part of an article about the decision of the NSES to withhold copyright. - Amgine / talk 02:01, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
It is only your interpretation that this story should be solely about the NSES decision, rather than the general issue of teaching Intelligent Design in the Kansas schools. I would think most people couldn't care less about the NSES decision, if it was for some other reason, for example, if Kansas had failed to pay some registration fee to the NSES. StuRat 02:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Again I must disagree. From the original author's first edit this article has been about the decision by the NSES because it immediately prevented ratification of the standard. This is a fairly substantial element of news as, had it not occurred, the standard was expected to be ratified this week. - Amgine / talk 02:36, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
I don't believe your interpretation that the original quote was SOLELY about the NSES decision and not about the teaching of Intelligent Design is supported by these two lines:
"...these overemphasize controvercy between the scientific theory of evolution and the theory of Intelligent Design. Moreover the organizations criticize that the standards in its current form distort the definition of science."
StuRat 02:43, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thank you! for creating Kansas School Board has copyright withheld over teaching Intelligent Design. --Chiacomo (talk) 05:18, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

That's the old article. I assume you mean the new one, US state of Kansas in battle over "Intelligent Design" in education. You're welcome. StuRat 05:26, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Quite right... Ctrl+V is dangerous in my hands.. :D Thanks again. --Chiacomo (talk) 05:28, 2 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

ID in Dover PA


I think we should start an article that will report the election results for the school board election in Dover, PA on November 8.
Science article
--JWSchmidt 02:23, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

The first and third articles require registration, so I didn't read those. The second article seems to have enough material on it's own, though. Why don't you start the article, and I will take a look at it after you rough it in. Sound good ? StuRat 04:02, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

See: Teaching Intelligen Design: Dover PA school board election results; I just noticed "Intelligen" in the title! --JWSchmidt 16:05, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

I fixed the title and did a few other minor tweaks. Do they currently have ID taught in biology ? If so, I must have missed that in the articles I read. StuRat 16:54, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

As I understand it, the school board mandated that a "statement" about intelligent design be read in biology classes. According to the Science article (talking about one of the school's biology teachers):

"The local school board had ordered her and seven colleagues to read to their biology classes a statement that attacks the theory of evolution and promotes intelligent design"

I put a link to the "statement" in the sources for the story. --JWSchmidt 17:22, 3 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for your note on my talk page about Teaching Intelligent Design: Dover PA school board election results. On Tuesday night I started searching the web for news reports on the results for the election. The first one I found had incorporated much of the background from our Wikinews article about the Dover election and had cited Wikinews as a background source! --JWSchmidt 01:07, 11 November 2005 (UTC)Reply
Cool ! StuRat 23:04, 18 November 2005 (UTC)Reply

Avoid the Slash!


I see you've just renamed the rape article that was up as lead, the name is no good. You can't use the / character as it is a directory delimiter. Brian McNeil / talk 19:49, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Thanks for the hint, I will avoid a slash (in addition to the dollar sign, which I found out about before) in titles. We really need to fix this system to allow such common symbols in titles. The title shouldn't be used literally as the file name, but rather a serial number/timestamp should be used as a filename with a look-up table that reteives the actual title given this serial number. StuRat 20:28, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Note on article


In the Rape suspects in Ciudad Juárez arrested you've now reverted 3 times. Just giving you a friendly reminder that a 4th edit and a person is blocked for 24 hours. you can revert again after 24 hours now. i'm coming back in behind you and using my 3rd revert to put it back to it's proper global title. --MateoP 20:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

No, my change has been different each time, but your reverts are not. YOU will be blocked. StuRat 20:26, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
Actually it doesn't matter if the changes are only slight. what you are doing is obviously reverts, just the same as mine. --MateoP 20:38, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
No, a revert is when you ignore all comments by others and change back to the same exact thing you had before. I took your request to add the city name into the title seriously, and did add it back in. I also took Brian's comment that I should avoid slashes in titles seriously. You ignored our comments on the need to identify the country as Mexico, so all your changes are true "reverts". StuRat 00:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
I know all of my changes are reverts. That's why I stopped doing it. However, as I said, making slight changes to intentionally avoid 3RR doesn't work. I even tried to warn you on this. Too bad you ignored. --MateoP 00:41, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
Those changes are meant to deal with the concerns of others, which I actually take into consideration, unlike you. StuRat 00:46, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
The article now explains in the first sentence that it is in Mexico, now it is no longer lead it isn't so critical that it take account of the audience, which I would agree it did not. Brian McNeil / talk 20:43, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply



here is an article without country in title: 13 coal miners trapped in West Virginia mine

Is "west virginia" a well known place throughout the world? i'd like to see you justify this one. --MateoP 20:46, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

That article should include the name of the country, so I added it. The title should probably also include the name of the country. I have no objection if you want to add it. The fact that others fail to include the country name, when they should, in no way means you can justify removing the country name. StuRat 20:53, 3 January 2006 (UTC
So you insisted on country name in the title of the Ciudad Juárez article, but when it comes to a minor state of the U.S. you are not in such a hurry to add it? Hypocrisy is the only word to describe this. --MateoP 21:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
As I said, I have no objection to you adding it. I already changed the article and the lead article template, now you can change the titles, I'm not here to do all your work for you. StuRat 21:24, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
I will change it, because it is not a city and my rule only applies to cities. people are not expected to know the names of every state in the world. On the other hand I find it hilarious that you are attempting to pretend like you don't want to change the title because it's too much work. It wasn't too much work to change the Ciudad Juárez title. Your hypocrisy is unbelievable. --MateoP 21:28, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
Your attitude is unbelievable. StuRat 21:30, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

3RR Violation on Rape and murder suspects in Ciudad Juárez, Mexico arrested


<sigh> You have violated the spirit of, if not the letter of, the 3 revert rule in renaming of the above article. I have not blocked you, as I don't believe the 3RR should trigger an automatic block. Please consider uninvolving yourself in this article dispute or trying another way to resolve your differences. Please contact me with any questions. --Chiacomo (talk) 23:01, 3 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

LOL --MateoP 00:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

I don't know why you are laughing. It takes two to create a 3RR situation. Why not simply work this out on a discussion page instead of participating in a revert dispute? The Wiki-way involves discussion and compromise. Please, MateoP, consider working toward a solution in situations such as this one instead of simply pushing the reverts to the max. --Chiacomo (talk) 00:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
How do you suggest working this out? How is it possible to compromise this issue? He believes that there should be different standards for western and non-western cities in titles. If you have any suggestions on how to compromise with that, please let me know. --MateoP 00:30, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
You can start by not misrepresenting my position. Mexico is just as "western" as the US. I believe obscure places should be identified by nation, no matter where they are, and even include my own home town on Detroit, Michigan, USA. You just accuse anyone who disagrees with you of Eurocentrism, with no basis in reality. StuRat 00:33, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
Ciudad Juárez is not obscure. It has over a million people who live there, that's twice the size of Oklahoma City. It was named after Benito Juárez, Mexico's George Washington. It once served as a capital during the French occupation. Don't assume that because you're unfamiliar with a place that it's obscure. That's the definition of ethnocentrism. There is no way to resolve this, except to apply the same set of rules to all major cities. --MateoP 00:37, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
  • 12:34, 3 January 2006 StuRat m (Rape suspects in Ciudad Juárez arrested moved to Rape/murder suspects in Mexico arrested)
I'm counting the above as the first change... --Chiacomo (talk) 00:20, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
First change, yes, first revert, no. The policy only prohibits excessive reverts, so a change which is not a revert should not count. Many of the other title changes should also not be considered reverts, for the reasons I listed on your talk page. StuRat 00:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
I think we have a different interpretation of the 3RR, but that's beside the point. At this time if either of you revert again, I will block you. At this moment, neither of you are blocked... You both are aware of the problem and are apparently trying to potentially game the system by involving another editor. Why not talk about it some more or involve the community in the discussion rather than simply trying to get your way. This is apparently a serious issue to MateoP as he's cited Eurocentrism (sp?) before. I will not weigh in on this particular article except to suppose that were this any English speaking newspaper in the world (outside of Mexico) it would include some reference to Mexico in the title. We focus to an English language audience (obviously). --Chiacomo (talk) 00:39, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
If you look on his home page and talk page, you will see that he calls anyone who disagrees with him "Eurocentric". StuRat 00:42, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
A newspaper is going to come from the perspective of the place with which it's from. As an internet wiki with no home office, we get to come from a global perspective. This means not favoring some places over others or some cultures over others. --MateoP 00:44, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
If anything, that argument would favor MORE identification of countries, not less, as most of the readers are sure to be from other countries and therefore less likely to know local geography. StuRat 00:49, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
See here. For some reason you didn't think it necessary enough to simply rename the West Viriginia coal miner title. --MateoP 00:55, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
I saw how you did make that change, then reverted it, to try to weasel out of the fact that you really believe it should be there. StuRat 00:58, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
So you think I agree with you, but took it out to make it look like i don't? States are a different issue. I was of the opinion that states should have country title but I changed my mind. --MateoP 01:11, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply
You only chose to classify it as a diff issue. Any way of identifying a country without explicitly listing the name could fall into the same category. For example, in Soviet Union days, would saying "Change in leadership in the Politburo" be sufficient, or would one need to say "Change in leadership in the Soviet Politburo" ? StuRat 01:16, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

Take a break


I respectfully request that you take a break from posting regarding either this particular article or this particular issue for a short while. Perhaps you would like to visit the tea-room. - Amgine | talk en.WN 01:51, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

I requested participants take a break on the water cooler discussion, at which point User:MateoP stopped adding comments. I suspect you missed that addition, so I added it to your talk page.
I do appreciate your edits and history with Wikinews; and yes I really appreciated your efforts as a judge in the international writing contest. I'm trying very hard not to be prejudicial in this discussion in case I am asked at a later point to mediate it; at the moment I take no position regarding it though I am on record as saying a city's or politician's recognizability is subjective.
What I'm asking is for a short break, to take a couple hours and consider other articles or projects. Then you can come back to this with, perhaps, a bit of distance from the recent commenting. - Amgine | talk en.WN 02:12, 4 January 2006 (UTC)Reply

On a break


As you can see from my history, I've been on a break for quite a while now, and will likely stay on a break, indefinitely. I get less flack from contributing over at Wikipedia, so prefer to stay there. I also find the policy of writing all articles as if they're for the local newspaper, then placing them on a front page shared by users around the world, to be quite annoying. There is currently some article about "Queensland", and I would guess most people looking at the title have no clue that's an Australian state. StuRat 19:37, 22 March 2006 (UTC)Reply