Talk:Students compete in second international Neurosurgery Olympiad in Tyumen, Russia

Review of revision 4474515 [Not ready]

Revision 4474515 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 18:48, 6 April 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: Needs to be established by the lede; see below. Verifiability: Not ready: See below. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: The lede —the first paragraph— should be succinctly answering as many as reasonably possible of the five Ws and an H about the focal event, and in the process should establish newsworthiness, which calls for specificity, relevance, and freshness. I'm not seeing a "day" word in that paragraph; as noted in the advice on "when" at WN:5Ws, if there isn't a "day" word in the lede, either "today", "yesterday", or the name of a day of the week, it's unlikely to be establishing freshness (and in general might also fall show on specificity). The sources (which should be listed from most recent to least recent, btw) are apparently all in the Russian language. Most reviewers here are not fluent in Russian, making it very difficult for us to handle Russian sources. There are reasons why this might be necessary, one of which is certainly that there are no English sources available (see WN:CITE#Considering the review process); but then, the reporter should generally provide translation help if they hope for an English-Wikinews reviewer to manage. Keeping in mind, of course, that automatic translators are substantially useless for the purpose. Russian Wikinews cannot itself be a source (although there's a standard template around here somewhere for acknowledging that parts of an article are taken from another-language Wikinews, which should certainly be acknowledged). This says there was original reporting, but there is no documentation of that on the talk page. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4474515 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 18:48, 6 April 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: Needs to be established by the lede; see below. Verifiability: Not ready: See below. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: The lede —the first paragraph— should be succinctly answering as many as reasonably possible of the five Ws and an H about the focal event, and in the process should establish newsworthiness, which calls for specificity, relevance, and freshness. I'm not seeing a "day" word in that paragraph; as noted in the advice on "when" at WN:5Ws, if there isn't a "day" word in the lede, either "today", "yesterday", or the name of a day of the week, it's unlikely to be establishing freshness (and in general might also fall show on specificity). The sources (which should be listed from most recent to least recent, btw) are apparently all in the Russian language. Most reviewers here are not fluent in Russian, making it very difficult for us to handle Russian sources. There are reasons why this might be necessary, one of which is certainly that there are no English sources available (see WN:CITE#Considering the review process); but then, the reporter should generally provide translation help if they hope for an English-Wikinews reviewer to manage. Keeping in mind, of course, that automatic translators are substantially useless for the purpose. Russian Wikinews cannot itself be a source (although there's a standard template around here somewhere for acknowledging that parts of an article are taken from another-language Wikinews, which should certainly be acknowledged). This says there was original reporting, but there is no documentation of that on the talk page. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

• About original report. I made all the photoes, a map and wrote 4 interviews. There are in c:Category:II International Student Olympiad in neurosurgery (Tyumen). Also I added information about Alexander Moor, Venyamin Ugryumov and Yuri Belyaev. At least I have 4 days of communications with a press-secretary of the Federal Center for Neurosurgery, I can send a file with translation. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:13, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
• Translation of sources:
  • The International Student Neurosurgery Olympiad for the prize of the Governor of the Tyumen Oblast started at the Federal Neurosurgery Center in Tyumen (В Федеральном центре нейрохирургии в Тюмени стартовала международная студенческая олимпиада по нейрохирургии на приз губернатора Тюменской области)
  • Olympiad on neurosurgery for the prize of the governor started in Tyumen (В Тюмени стартовала олимпиада по нейрохирургии на приз губернатора)
  • The winners of the international student's Olympiad in neurosurgery are determined: five winners instead of three (Определены победители международной студенческой олимпиады по нейрохирургии: вместо трех – пять призеров)

Although the matter has been take care of this time, for the future some less public means should be used to convey complete translations of sources to reviewers. As I understand the legalities, translation of a document leave in place all existing copyright restrictions on the document, and may add further copyright restrictions at the discretion of the translator. So I don't believe it's valid to host a complete translation of a source on the wiki. I've therefore deleted the translation texts. --Pi zero (talk) 02:17, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

OK. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:01, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Translation issues

I fixed up some of the English and I can come back and do more later, but there were a few places I didn't want to change without checking.

• "he still does not attract options to continue his career abroad." This looks like it means "No foreign program will have him; he applied but they said no," but does it really mean "he does not intend/want to continue his career abroad"?
  • Of course my translation is wrong. The words of Alexander Gagay mean that "he does not intend/want to continue his career abroad" first of all. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
• "the bird of luck" is not an expression in English. What does it mean here? Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
  • It means Bluebird of happiness. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Hm, maybe we leave this out, then. It seems a little flowery for journalistic style. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:48, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

You are right. It is better to delete it. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

• "countrymen" means people from the same country (in the 21st century; in earlier times it could also mean someone from a rural area vs a city). It does not mean people from the same state or province. So is Alexander Gagay there to support fellow Russians or fellow Yekaterinburgers or what? Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)
  • Yes, it's my mistake. Gagay was there to support fellow Yekaterinburgers. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

English is nuts, cuckoo, bananas (all of which mean "counterintuitive"). For some reason the word "twice" we use all the time but "thrice" is so old-fashioned that people will think the speaker is a time traveler from 1790. OOOOOOH, and you know why we sometimes have two words that mean the same thing? (double/twin, forest/woods, stomach/belly, behead/decapitate)? Neato video. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:28, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

(Noting, word frequencies vary globally; "thrice" is used by a wikinewsie in India, and we've one in Scotland who sometimes uses "outwith".) --Pi zero (talk) 00:19, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Thank you for video. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

For everyone but Icelanders (because they don't have last names in the same sense as people from other countries do) we refer to adults by surname upon subsequent reference, not by first name. So "Alexander Gagay" the first time and then "Gagay" after that. This is especially helpful since, this time, we seem to have multiple people called Alexander. Darkfrog24 (talk) 13:55, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

• Tnank you for your remarks. It is my first expeerience in the English Wikinews. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:27, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

• Two another free places to learn in the Sechenov University was won by... I thought the prize was a position at First Moscow State Medical University. Do both schools share the duty of giving the winners the award?
  • The Sechenov University and the First Moscow State Medical University are synonims. Three winners will get a grant from the Governor of Tyumen Oblast and another two winners wiII get a grant from Albert Sufianov. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Also, specifically what kind of position is it? A residency? A medical student admission? Are they awarded free tuition or free for all school expenses? Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:34, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

• All the winners awarded free tuition in a residency. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

• by the expense of medical tourism Does Governor Moor mean he wants to use funds gleaned from medical tourism to refurbish oil and gas infrastructure? Darkfrog24 (talk) 16:46, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

No:-) He believes that the economy of the Tyumen Oblast has no reserves of growth in oil and gas production. So, the Governor proposes to develop new branches. He considers medical tourism a promising area. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 17:01, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

He thinks it has oil now but will deplete it soon or he thinks it does not have oil now? Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:08, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

He thinks oil brings too little money. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 17:16, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Do you feel these two edits I've made are accurate to what the sources say? The way I put it, Governor Moor doesn't want to stop selling/cultivating oil and gas, just wants to change the pie chart of the area's economy so medical tourism has a slice and oil and gas are a smaller slice than they are now (even if it is still a big slice overall). Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:37, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Yes, you are right. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 01:58, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

Ah, good! I hate guessing. I figured what I did to the article matched what you are saying here on this talk page, but it is important that it match what the sources say, and alas I do not read Russian. Darkfrog24 (talk) 02:21, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

The matter is that we live in a different cultural environment. Every Russian considers oil and gas a punishment for his country, so he understands why the governor wants to develop other branches. Therefore, Russian sources do not write about it. Therefore, we need such dialogues to understand that from the outside it looks different. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:59, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

That is exactly what we like on the English Wikinews! One of my early articles on the election of President Trump, I did a bit explaining what the electoral college was. In the U.S. people know, but our audience is everyone. Darkfrog24 (talk) 17:59, 8 April 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев: Found another one. "Diploma" usually refers to a high school certificate (the one you get around age 18 before going to university). What one gets at a university is a "degree." Did you mean diploma or degree? "It is not customary to teach surgical skills to minors who are still in high school" or "it is not customary to teach surgical skills to undergrads"? Darkfrog24 (talk) 22:49, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

I mean degree. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 03:00, 10 April 2019 (UTC)

Picture of the winner

This article has pictures of the person who presided over the contest and of three people who were not the winner, including someone who took third place last year and one who did not win at all—all of them men. Is there no picture of Madina Bizheva available for us to use? Leaving her out suggests gender bias. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:06, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

And a photo of the last-year winner Ibrahim Salamov. I didn't make a photo of Madina Bizheva, because I visited the contest at the first day. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:14, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

I see, so no picture of her is available for us. I will move her speech further up, though. I think the readers will want to know who won right away. Darkfrog24 (talk) 15:50, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Maybe. The story of Bizheva is the most exciting event of the Olympiad. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 16:56, 7 April 2019 (UTC)

Title

I changed the title because the article includes content on English being hard for the students but isn't overall about that. Overall, it's about the contest. Can anyone think of anything shorter? Darkfrog24 (talk) 00:09, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Maybe "The unique Neurosurgery Olympiad finished in Tyumen"? Because it is no analogues in the world. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 03:26, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Around here, "unique" could be considered a value judgement, so maybe not "unique." "Second" would do.

"Students compete in world's second Neurosurgery Olympiad in Tyumen, Russia"? Darkfrog24 (talk) 04:10, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Well. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:21, 9 April 2019 (UTC)

Stale?

I think unfortunately this is no longer fresh...? --Gryllida (talk) 23:41, 16 April 2019 (UTC)

Unfortunately. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:24, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев: Believe it or not, I've actually been trying to prioritize this (though alas I've had off-line things getting in the way). I'm hoping to get to take a close look in the next few hours (and we'll see how that goes, and what I see when I look...) --Pi zero (talk) 12:39, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Speaking as someone who had drafts in the hopper, I support that decision. Дмитрий clearly worked his butt off for this and it's the sort of thing other news agencies cannot provide. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:20, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Very good news, thank you! - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:29, 17 April 2019 (UTC)

Running behind, I'm taking a look now. It's late here so I doubt I'll be able to finish now, but I'll try to move things along and thereby make it much easier to complete the task hereafter. --Pi zero (talk) 02:36, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

What I could, this evening. --Pi zero (talk) 03:38, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

As I said here not so long ago, I expected this result, because I have encountered this in the past numerous times. English Wikinews "supervisors" would not accept such texts no matter how good they are. This seems like a "policy" — to exhaust writers by numerous demands and after that never publish it. Of course with explanations on how fair this approach is. --Ssr (talk) 09:22, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

Hm.

Pi zero is almost the only person working review these days, and he does a ton of other routine work around here too. Sometimes Gryllida jumps in with a not-ready but mostly not. Maybe we just need more reviewers. What do you think, Ssr? Darkfrog24 (talk) 18:13, 23 April 2019 (UTC)

@Darkfrog24:, yes, it may be so. In the past I regularly participated in the project but stopped after I encountered the abovementioned. If the publication of this particular story is the sign of things getting better, then this is good and let's now look at this. In the meantime, I am forced to publish this story in English at this place instead of normal Wikinews Interwiki. --Ssr (talk) 09:56, 5 August 2019 (UTC)

Alternative translation

@Дмитрий Кошелев: I'd like to get your prompt feedback on this tweaking of translation. You had:

"Next year, this weight must be taken."

which I see is what Google translate renders. I have:

"In the next year, this must be given weight."

If I've messed that up, we really want to know very quickly. --Pi zero (talk) 17:36, 19 April 2019 (UTC)

The first translation was more suitable. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 12:50, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев: You prefer "Next year, this weight must be taken"? I'm afraid I don't know what that means. The word "weight", in English, does not have a sense that can be combined with the verb "take" in that way. --Pi zero (talk) 13:56, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

(@Gryllida: Any thoughts on this?) --Pi zero (talk) 14:01, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

Concur. "This weight must be taken" does not make sense in English, to the point where the reader will not know what you mean. Given the context, the governor could be talking about giving something weight (acknowledging its importance) or literally weighing exported materials. Darkfrog24 (talk) 14:22, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

What is the original? Gryllida (talk) 20:36, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

@Gryllida: В следующем году этот вес надо взять. --Pi zero (talk) 20:48, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

"In [the] next year this weight should [be] taken"

Yes it is an idiom, some places translate it as "become more fat" but the interpretation of "lift some more weight than before, making it a record compared to your previous performance" is more common. Like Dmitri says below it means reaching a new goal better than before.

Here is an example. Added ru:wikt:взять вес. Gryllida (talk) 19:42, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

The governor meant that the goal had to be achieved. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 14:29, 20 April 2019 (UTC)

The governor's speech is a metaphor. For example: "The weightlifter was the first man to clean and jerk 500 pounds (227 kg) in competition". The governor compares the economy of Tyumen Oblast and a weightlifter. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:38, 21 April 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев, Gryllida: I've tweaked the translation of

Если человек к чему стремиться и чего-то очень желает, — все получится.

I felt the proposed translation wanted some polishing, so I adjusted it from

If a person aspires to what and desires something, then everything will turn out.

to

If a person strives for and desires something, then everything will work out.

--Pi zero (talk) 20:52, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Seems ok to me. Gryllida (talk) 03:34, 26 April 2019 (UTC)

Number of participants

@Дмитрий Кошелев: You say here there were "46 people" attending. Of the first three sources, the first says "110 students came", the second says "46 students [...] will take part", and the third says "110 participants — students [...] fought for [...]".

Why are there two different numbers involved? Are they somehow counting different things? I really don't understand what is causing this discrepancy, and I feel that without understanding the discrepancy I don't even know how we ought to be reporting this number (let alone which number we ought to be reporting). --Pi zero (talk) 20:22, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

This is proof that my article is an original report. The source contains an error. 110 people registered for the competition, but only 46 arrived in Tyumen. Therefore, the correct number of participants is 46. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:00, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

As I haven't completed my survey of the documentation (though I've looked at the first three synthesis sources), I don't know what else is there that I haven't seen yet. --Pi zero (talk) 05:30, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I sent you a correspondence with the spokesperson. It consists the message:

"Наталья Тимофеева

2 апреля, 11:20

Кому: вам

Студенты из Волгограда, Нальчика, Кемерово, Краснодара, Красноярска, Санкт-Петербурга, Москвы, Нижнего Новгорода, Новосибирска, Уфы, Улан-Удэ, :::Симферополя, Якутска, Казани, Ростова-на-Дону, Рязани, Саратова, Екатеринбурга, Томска, Тюмени, Чебоксар, Ярославля, Актобе (Казахстан).

Дима, это география, всего 46 участников.

Students from Volgograd, Nalchik, Kemerovo, Krasnodar, Krasnoyarsk, St. Petersburg, Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod, Novosibirsk, Ufa, Ulan-Ude, Simferopol, Yakutsk, Kazan, Rostov-on-Don, Ryazan, Saratov, Yekaterinburg, Tomsk, Tyumen , Cheboksary, Yaroslavl, Aktobe (Kazakhstan).

Dima, this is geography, a total of 46 participants." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:46, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

And this source (ru:w:Тюменская линия) is the official media of the Tyumen governor. 46 participants is official government information. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:53, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

I think I was overlooking that last point; it may be quite useful. Thx. --Pi zero (talk) 05:57, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Bit of analysis

Re the ninth paragraph, that starts "According to Sufianov" and then mentions social elevators, the second sentence of that paragraph is a neutrality problem: "Student Ibrahim Salamov is an illustration of his words." This is analysis, a sort of thing we seek to avoid. I'm not entirely sure, yet, what needs to be done to defuse this difficulty; I'd need to understand more of the situation. In particular, I am not yet clear on whether this assertion, that Salamov is an illustration of these words by Sufianov, is an observation by the reporter, or something remarked upon by Sufianov. If it's an observation by the reporter, we want to find a way to eliminate it; if it's an observation by Sufianov, we want to attribute it. --Pi zero (talk) 20:32, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Sufianov himself cited Ibrahim as an example. Once during the opening procedure of the competition and once during the interview. But I don't remember his exact words. If you are uncomfortable, you can remove this passage. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:06, 25 April 2019 (UTC)

Note on review progress

I have (tentatively, of course) finished mining the first three synthesis sources for those things they verify about the article. --Pi zero (talk) 02:02, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Had also been through the fourth synthesis source. --Pi zero (talk) 14:52, 27 April 2019 (UTC)

Do you need a transcription of audio files? - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:24, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев: Yes, please. --Pi zero (talk) 13:01, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Gagay, Kovalchuk, Salamov, Dydykin. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 17:10, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Thx. --Pi zero (talk) 19:33, 28 April 2019 (UTC)

Review of revision 4478039 [Not ready]

Revision 4478039 of this article has been reviewed by Green Giant (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:41, 30 April 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: This story is now quite stale. If there is a follow-up story then it might be possible to re-use some of this article. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 4478039 of this article has been reviewed by Green Giant (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 21:41, 30 April 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not ready: Verifiability: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Comments by reviewer: This story is now quite stale. If there is a follow-up story then it might be possible to re-use some of this article. Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

@Дмитрий Кошелев, Gryllida: I'm willing to do whatever I can to help with this. A relevant page is WN:GATWICK. --Pi zero (talk) 22:41, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

In preparation for whatever can be done, I hope to continue with the review of existing material. --Pi zero (talk) 23:14, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

The competition is over, the news may not continue until September, when the winners will start their first year at the Sechenov University. I did everything that depended on me. Translated sources, transcribed audio. I did it on demand, spent a large amount of time on it. This will probably be my first and last experience in English Wikinews. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 05:16, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

@Дмитрий Кошелев: We're back in business. --Pi zero (talk) 05:49, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

I have marked the article {{under review}} to reduce the likelihood of misunderstandings. --Pi zero (talk) 05:58, 1 May 2019 (UTC)

Unverified details

@Дмитрий Кошелев: We have only 24 hours after publication to submit any changes to the substance of the article, and review them. Here are some things I didn't successfully verify.

• I was kind of confused about the days, 2–3 or 2–4 or 3–4. Timestamps on a camera may be sufficient to call the dates into question, but perhaps not to verify different dates, since clocks on devices are likely subject to being mis-set.
  • From a correspondence with the spokesman:
    • "Natalya Timofeyeva March 28, 2019, 16:41
    • Hello colleagues! We invite you to a significant event for the Tyumen region: the International Student Olympiad in Neurosurgery for the prize of the Governor of the Tyumen Oblast, which will be held at the Federal Neurosurgery Center in Tyumen on April 2 and 3. This is the second experience of the Olympiad in the FNC. The first was held in April 2018 and was a success."
    • "Дмитрий Кошелев 1 апреля 2019, 9:18
    • Hello. I will be tomorrow morning." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:01, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• You say Salamov led a theory test. I didn't see anything about that in the documentation.
  • I attended a theory test and made this photo. This is Salamov on stage, near the podium. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:05, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• I found a list of 22 cities, but it's in one of the sources that says there were 110 participants.
  • From a correspondence with the spokesman:
    • "Наталья Тимофеева 2 апреля, 11:20
    • Students from Volgograd, Nalchik, Kemerovo, Krasnodar, Krasnoyarsk, St. Petersburg, Moscow, Nizhny Novgorod, Novosibirsk, Ufa, Ulan-Ude, Simferopol, Yakutsk, Kazan, Rostov-on-Don, Ryazan, Saratov, Yekaterinburg, Tomsk, Tyumen , Cheboksary, Yaroslavl, Aktobe (Kazakhstan).
    • Dima, this is geography, a total of 46 participants." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:07, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• Which cities have populations over a million is a more potentially uncertain thing (thus, requiring documentation and attribution) than which cities are federal district capitals.
  • Well. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:11, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• I had some trouble finding documentation on who funded it all.
  • From a correspondence with the spokesman:
    • "Наталья Тимофеева 5 апреля 2019, 16:07
    • Dima, read. Funding - the government of the region + funds of the Association of Neurosurgeons of the Tyumen region." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 04:11, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• There are references in the notes to additional documentation that could be provided; alas, I didn't notice this earlier. This is certainly the sort of thing needed for verification; I've had to pull a whole paragraph, and various other bits here and there.
  • About Ugryumov and Belyaev - from interview of Sufianov (source):
    • "Один из основателей современной советской и российской нейрохирургии — Вениамин Михайлович Угрюмов родился в Тюмени (от авт.- профессор Угрюмов родился в 1911 году в деревне Ожогино, которая неподалеку от Патрушево). Он возглавлял научно-исследовательский институт нейрохирургии имени А.Л.Поленова в Ленинграде, был вице-президентом Европейского общества нейрохирургов и автором одного из первых практических руководств по нейрохирургии в СССР. Угрюмов впервые стал отправлять за границу советских докторов для обучения новым технологиям. Это просто фантастика, что он родился в Тюмени – там, где сегодня находится ведущий центр нейрохирургии. Еще одна живая легенда российской и тюменской нейрохирургии – Юрий Иннокентьевич Беляев. Он добился больших успехов в функциональной нейрохирургии, причем делал первые операции именно в Тюмени. И добивался супер-результатов."
    • "One of the founders of modern Soviet and Russian neurosurgery - Veniamin Mikhailovich Ugryumov was born in Tyumen (from the author. Professor Ugryumov was born in 1911 in the village of Ozhozhino, which is not far from Patrushevo). He headed the Polenov Research Institute of Neurosurgery in Leningrad, was the vice-president of the European Society of Neurosurgeons and the author of one of the first practical neurosurgery manuals in the USSR. Ugryumov was the first to send Soviet doctors abroad to teach new technologies. It's just fantastic that he was born in Tyumen, where today's leading center of neurosurgery is located. Another living legend of Russian and Tyumen neurosurgery - Yuri Innokentievich Belyaev. He achieved great success in functional neurosurgery, and he did the first operations in Tyumen. And he achieved super results." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:28, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • About Sufainov's teachers - from his interview (source is w:ru:Тюменская область сегодня):
    • "Я не стал ничего придумывать и приукрашивать. Просто взял тетрадный лист и составил список своих навыков, умений и профессиональных качеств. С этим текстом отправил письма во все ведущие центры нейрохирургии мира, в том числе российские. Ответ получил только из Японии. Пофессор Като пригласил в свою клинику. Затем последовала учеба в клиниках Азии, Европы, США и Польши. Не всегда было комфортно. Так, в ведущем польском центре нейрохирургии меня со своей свитой, человек тридцать, встретил профессор Грушко и определил место.. в самом ее конце. Со мной никто не общался, меня не замечали. Через две недели профессор пригласил на собеседование. А в конце разговора заявил: «Русского буду учить лично» и распорядился: «Всем специалистам клиники ни в чем ему не отказывать, помогать». Мне же велел «ходить только рядом с ним». После окончания обучения профессор предложил возглавить нейрохирургический центр в Канаде."
    • "I did not invent and embellish anything. I just took a notebook sheet and made a list of my skills, abilities and professional qualities. With this text I sent letters to all leading centers of neurosurgery of the world, including Russian ones. The answer was received only from Japan. Professor Kato invited to his clinic. This was followed by studies in clinics in Asia, Europe, the USA and Poland. It was not always comfortable. So, in the leading Polish center of neurosurgery, I and my retinue, about thirty, were met by Professor Grushko and determined the place .. at the very end of it. Nobody spoke to me, they did not notice me. Two weeks later, the professor invited me for an interview. And at the end of the conversation he said: “I will teach Russian personally” and ordered: “I will not refuse anything to all the specialists of the clinic, to help”. I was also told to "walk only with him." After graduation, the professor proposed to lead the neurosurgical center in Canada." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:35, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • About operation - from w:en:TASS (source). Sufianov is on the photo during the operation:
    • "Врачи тюменского Федерального центра нейрохирургии (ФЦН) и Уральского научно-исследовательского института охраны материнства и младенчества (НИИ ОММ) впервые в России провели операцию на головном мозге еще не родившемуся ребенку. Об этом во вторник сообщили в пресс-службе ФЦН. "Впервые в медицинской практике нашей страны и второй раз в мире выполнена сложнейшая внутриутробная операция на головном мозге ребенку. Ее провела бригада врачей из Тюмени и Екатеринбурга. Операцию провели в Уральском НИИ ОММ в Екатеринбурге", - говорится в сообщении."
    • "Doctors of the Tyumen Federal Center for Neurosurgery (FCN) and the Ural Research Institute for the Protection of Motherhood and Infancy (SRI OMM) for the first time in Russia performed a brain surgery on an unborn child. This was reported on Tuesday in the press service of the FCN. "For the first time in the medical practice of our country, and for the second time in the world, the most complex intrauterine brain surgery was performed on a child. It was conducted by a team of doctors from Tyumen and Yekaterinburg. The operation was carried out in the Ural Research Institute OMM in Yekaterinburg," the report said.". - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • Once more source about operation:
    • "А в прошлом месяце в ФНЦ провели вторую в мире и первую в России внутриутробную операцию на головном мозге. Это сегодня мы знаем, что малыша зовут Ярослав и его мама после операции благополучно доносила сына и родила его в положенный срок. Весной же жительнице ЯНАО сообщили, что у ее еще не родившегося ребенка наблюдается серьезная патология. Женщина обратилась к екатеринбургским специалистам. Они посоветовали решиться на хирургическое вмешательство. Операцию провели высококлассные специалисты, в том числе и Альберт Акрамович [Суфианов]."
    • "And last month, the FCN held the second in the world and the first intrauterine brain surgery in Russia. It is today we know that the baby’s name is Yaroslav and his mother after the operation safely denounced her son and gave birth to him in due time. In the spring, a resident of the YNAO was informed that her unborn child had a serious pathology. The woman turned to Yekaterinburg specialists. They advised to decide on surgical intervention. The operation was conducted by highly qualified specialists, including Albert Akramovich [Sufianov]." - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:47, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
  • About the World Academy of Neurological Surgery:
    • "В 2015 году профессор был избран в действительные члены Всемирной Академии нейрохирургов, насчитывающий всего сто человек." / "In 2015, the professor was elected to the full members of the World Academy of Neurosurgeons, numbering only one hundred people." (from w:en:TASS, source)
    • "Альберт Суфианов – Член всемирной академии нейрохирургии, куда входят 100 лучших нейрохирургов мира; он лишь второй представитель из России" / "Albert Sufianov - Member of the World Academy of Neurosurgery, which includes the top 100 neurosurgeons of the world; he is only the second representative from Russia" (source).
    • List of honorary members (Konovalov), list of active members (Sufianov). - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 06:55, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• I'm allowing some points that I didn't find specifically in the documentation, that ought to be documented, as they are generalities (such as, Sufianov believes neurosurgeons need good neurosurgical English and that's a nationwide problem in Russia) rather than details that are easier to trip over, keeping in mind this is the reporter's first such submission to en.wn.
  • About good English - some sources speak about. For example:
    • "Помимо профессиональных медицинских навыков, сегодня врачам, чтобы развиваться, необходимо хорошо знать английский язык. Планка требований высока. Это отражено и в заданиях олимпиады», — сказал Альберт Суфианов." / "In addition to professional medical skills, today doctors need to know English well in order to develop. The level of requirements is high. This is reflected in the tasks of the Olympiad,” said Albert Sufianov." (source)
  • About national problem: it was said in the presence of 5 people. - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 08:29, 7 May 2019 (UTC)
• There was one point in the account of Gagay's comments, I didn't find in the interview, nor in the source that mentions Gagay.
  • About his study: he cannot study in the First Moscow State Medical University before he will finish Ural State Medical University. A year ago, it was written about him:
    • "Второе место занял студент 6 курса из Краснодара Тимофеос Эминидис, третье — Александр Гагай, обучающийся на третьем курсе в Екатеринбурге. Первые два победителя будут зачислены на бесплатное обучение на кафедре нейрохирургии МГМУ имени Сеченова. Студент, занявший третье место, приступит к обучению на кафедре после окончания вуза."
    • "The second place was taken by the 6th year student from Krasnodar Timofeos Eminidis, the third - Alexander Gagai, who is studying for the third year in Yekaterinburg. The first two winners will be credited for free education at the Department of Neurosurgery, Sechenov Moscow State Medical University. The third place student will start studying at the department after graduation." (source) - Дмитрий Кошелев (talk) 08:39, 7 May 2019 (UTC)

--Pi zero (talk) 20:14, 6 May 2019 (UTC)

Review of revision 4479226 [Passed]

Revision 4479226 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 20:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: We have just 24 hours from publication to make adjustments to the substance, so if anything I wasn't able to verify can be rescued, it has to happen that fast. There's a list of (most?) such things just above, #Unverified details. Hopefully, the reporter can apply experience from this to help make future such submissions easier to review. Reviewing articles with non-English sources (unless the reviewer happens to be fluent in the source language) is difficult, reviewing OR is difficult, and reviewing articles this long is difficult. I'm glad to have gotten it out, though; it's genuinely interesting. Thanks for submitting it, and for all your help with the review process. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 4479226 of this article has been reviewed by Pi zero (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 20:26, 6 May 2019 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: We have just 24 hours from publication to make adjustments to the substance, so if anything I wasn't able to verify can be rescued, it has to happen that fast. There's a list of (most?) such things just above, #Unverified details. Hopefully, the reporter can apply experience from this to help make future such submissions easier to review. Reviewing articles with non-English sources (unless the reviewer happens to be fluent in the source language) is difficult, reviewing OR is difficult, and reviewing articles this long is difficult. I'm glad to have gotten it out, though; it's genuinely interesting. Thanks for submitting it, and for all your help with the review process. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.