Wikinews talk:Accredited Reporter ID

Printer cost

On option 2, the $1750 pricetag on the printer seems a little high. I assume this is either some issue related to either using laser, or something more specialised that can print and laminate. What are we looking at here? --Brian McNeil / ^talk 17:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

A real, identity badge printer. Prints onto PVC cards of ID size, and applies at least one security feature. Prices start at £1000 here in the U.K., but with the market fluctuating, I have overestimated the cost in the U.S. --Skenmy ^talk 17:48, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I assume such a printer would be capable of putting a passport-sized photo on the card. The requirement to submit such would also help with something I mentioned on the WC, namely getting photos on Wikinewsie and - I guess - on the credential verification page too. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 09:15, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Maintaining wikinewsie.org

I just extended the domain registration on this a bit early - not looking to get the money back, but this seems like a good time to again raise the issue of what to do on this. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 17:45, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I like wikinewsie.org - it gives us a good email address that seems to get results! I'm not sure what others seem to think, though? --Skenmy ^talk 17:49, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Well I like wikinewsie, I think it goes without saying that having address @wikinews.org (without the ie) would be better. I'm not all that familiar with how the dns and email work together, but couldn't the foundation set up an MX record for the domain wikinews.org to have email go to wikinewsie.org servers. that seems a reasonable way of doing things if the foundation doesn't want to give out real emails (since everything would be hosted elsewhere) Bawolff ☺☻ 07:03, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Yeah, agreed. Using wikinewsie@.org has had results that were near impossible previously. Of course @wikinews.org would always be better. Out of interest, how much does the domain / hosting cost Brian? I know I for one would be happy to chip in a few dollars to keep the site going Brian | (Talk) | ^{New Zealand Portal} 03:57, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

While it is _very_ easy for the foundation to redirect the email of wikinews.org our way, they maybe reticent to actually do so. They would then have "official" email addresses (just like if the email was @wikipedia.org) which were essentially out of their control. Plus we get back into the "We are independent accredited reporters, we don't actually work for wikinews" thing. --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 16:26, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Shipping costs

Are shipping costs to 'everywhere' only $2? I'm not sure as I don't send stuff to other countries often. Cheers, Van der Hoorn (talk) 20:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

If you're talking about a credit-card sized ID, that's a regular envelope - so likely < $2 for most of the world. That is, unless you're sending registered post/recorded delivery. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 21:05, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

On second thoughts on this... It should be sent registered post. If we're using a credit-card sized ID then someone might get tempted to see if it is a credit card. It should be a case of definitely delivering it to the named holder. This has the advantage that it can't be delivered to someone giving a false name unless they also have a false ID the postman will accept. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 15:42, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

I realise this is slight necromancy, but since the 'proper ID cards' proposal still seems to be live I reckon it's worth posting. Here in the UK,registered post does not require the person to present ID upon signing. In fact the item doesn't even need to be signed for by the addressee. I don't know the situation in other countries but I'd be surprised if this is unique to the UK. Cynical (talk) 02:27, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Cross Wikinews

Do other language Wikinews have the same system? Otherwise a cross-wiki proposal may increase success. Cheers, Van der Hoorn (talk) 20:14, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The Chinese Wikinews has accreditation, I know, but I'm not so sure about other languages. tempodivalse 20:20, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

The Dutch Wikinews doesn't have accreditation as far as I know and the German Wikinews appears to have abolished the accreditation procedure. I really like the proposal, by the way. It really encourages users to get out there and write some original stories. Cheers, Van der Hoorn (talk) 20:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

There are quite a few problems in some of the European countries when you tell someone you are "the press". Here in Belgium, the only 'legitimate' press pass is one issued by the Ministry of the Interior; a qualifying requirement is that journalism is your primary source of income. I would not be surprised if this is the same in nl. and de. - I believe it is also the case in fr.

I can't comment on other parts of the world, but I think there's a couple of times I've shot off emails at the UK's NUJ, and not got a peep back. I think membership thereof is the UK's equivalent of these European press passes. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 22:34, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Reading the website NUJ have a section called new media which I guess applies to us, NUJ dues seem to be based on the organisation size, I don't know how that'll categorise us, but any students doing journalism can join for a one of fee for the duration of their course.KTo288 (talk) 09:18, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Other organisations besides the NUJ can issue press cards. NUJ is just a gatekeeper. See [1]. Computerjoe (talk) 15:44, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

Misc comments

Doesn't the foundation take some issue with "official" accrediting wikinewsies? Bawolff ☺☻ 21:53, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I can bring this up on private lists, but the basic situation is that the WMF itself will not put themselves in a position where an involvement in an accreditation process - or more precisely, the issuing of credentials - could see them become editorially liable.

There may be some specific areas where we could ask for support, but I think development of this and clearing up what we need for ID should come first. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 22:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I have already noted this in the proposal. This is an application for a grant towards getting this done, not the WMF vouching for the accredited reporters. --Skenmy ^talk 07:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

An issue that has been cited as an example of needing ID is getting through police cordons to a better vantage point for photography. You can safely say that most accredited reporters would respect the access given, but we could be proactive and work with police/fire authorities. DragonFire1024 might can comment on that; would going to the local copshop, introducing yourself, giving ID details, and asking for any information they had on how to behave inside the cordon help? Can the credential verification be done at your local police station ahead of time - so that 'at the scene' you can say, "If you check with the desk sergeant, he has my credentials on file and verified them". --Brian McNeil / ^talk 22:26, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Fund rasier

I have said it before and I will say it again. These things are precisely what we should have our own fundraisers for. This is also where forming some kind of foundation or group or something, like Craig was doing (in terms of accreditation recognition), would be good. I don't see why the WMF and WN can't discuss option for WMF affiliating such an organization. I am tired so I may not be making too much sense on that. But yes a fundraiser for stuff exactly like the badges, wikinewsie.org and such. I think it ought to be seriously discussed. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 04:45, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, Craig was working on something that would have been much more wide-reaching than our accreditation process.

The real problem for the WMF in getting involved in accreditation is potential for liability if something libellous and/or defamatory is published by an accredited reporter. This is not a small or trivial issue. Seriously, having to fight a libel case could bankrupt the foundation, and doing so would not be seen by those who donate as an effective use of their money; remember, most people donate to support Wikipedia. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 08:21, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

So perhaps our own fund raiser is the best idea? I am willing to co-ordinate this all - even down to the printing and distributing of the cards - but the issue is being trusted with such amounts of money. --Skenmy ^talk 20:49, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Well the funds could be in the hands of WMF...we raise the money, and its set aside in an account or something similar specifically for WN. It would just be a matter of defining what money goes where and for what. Do we have a specific fund raiser ie for the machine or a specific item(s)? Or do we have a few general fundraisers throughout the year (like the WMF fundraisers) that raises funds for whatever it is we need? The end result IMO is that WMF, if willing, should be in possession of such funds, not just for security, but also so our donors know the money is protected and used only on WN related stuff. DragonFire1024 (Talk to the Dragon) 00:47, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

Reporter package

I'd like to make a somewhat off-the-wall suggestion around this - and that is a more generalised 'accredited reporter package'. There is no dispute that getting the ID is going to cost money, and realistically the reporter should be funding part - if not all - of that cost. Yes, this sets up a barrier to entry, but I feel it could also add to the way people look at us. I propose the following items be part of a kit issued to accredited reporters:

• Press card/ID
• Holder for press card/ID that can be clipped to a lanyard
• Lanyard with Wikinews logo/name
• 2xWikinews T-shirts with huge PRESS text somewhere

The key addition here is the shirts, which will probably at $30-$40 USD onto the price. These are a big advert for Wikinews, and make it clear who you represent. I think Cary can probably post some photos of the ones I made up for Alexandria.

As a ball-park figure, this puts a price tag of around $50 on accreditation, at cost to the reporter. There may be room to negotiate a preferential rate for some (eg. unemployed) but it could also feed a couple of dollars back into the WMF to recoup costs on things like the printing equipment and materials. Obviously, renewal would either be nominal - say, $5 for a new card - but there's an up-front commitment you have to be prepared to make before applying.

Is this a crazy idea, or one we could perhaps work with? --Brian McNeil / ^talk 12:53, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Nice! However, I would argue for optional tea-shirts. Have a master design template and allow reporters to get them printed in their own countries, as it could work out cheaper considering postage, etc. Overall, I offer my complete support Brian | (Talk) | ^{New Zealand Portal} 04:04, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Love it. Plain and simple. --Skenmy ^talk 20:50, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

[Aside, totally unrelated] - Saw a funny MOTD on /. - "Biology lab: Staph Only". Anyway, can we extend this or work around the concept in a way that could bring more money to the Foundation? What I mean is, the above is totally obvious for WN but would only have tens of sales per year (given current activity). Wikipedia have run projects like "Wikipedia Loves Art", and then you can look at cases like David Shankbone doing Commons photography of celebs. Is there scope to do packages like these on other projects - with the project community deciding who gets the secret password to order them? I could easily imagine people who've made a few hundred edits on Wikipedia being interested in getting a T- with "WIKIPEDIA RESEARCHER" on the back, a card verifying their identity, and trying to bluff their way into the non-public parts of libraries and galleries. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 21:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Card Expiry date

I would argue for a two year timeframe, before expiry, it would prove to costly for a yearly renewable, and a majority of AR do hang around on wn for at least two years in my experience Brian | (Talk) | ^{New Zealand Portal} 04:09, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

That certainly makes more sense. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 09:13, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

+1. We should make this more on the part of our AR system. Have a built in "Expiration". --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 01:03, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

User ID

There hasn't been 100% consistency on how a reporter's ID number has been arrived at in the past. I think most of the time it has been the user's username number from the list of users, but not always.

I'd like to suggest we also standardise on that as the reporter ID when we move over to more professional cards. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 09:36, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Accreditation beyond Wikinews

I raised the issue on Commons of accredited photographer. This seems to have met with some enthusiasm. Who are our more frequent commons contributors who could also give input on this? --Brian McNeil / ^talk 10:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Link Fixed. And I happen to be a commoner, and got AR here under the guise of taking pictures. I think it is a fine idea for some of the other projects to pursue some sort of accreditation - but up to them as to what for. I can see some sort of creds might be useful for a few commoners, but not too terribly many. To be fair I really haven't had much chance since my AR to abuse it. --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 17:29, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Update

Any update on thoughts with regard to this-obviously I'm unaccredited(at the moment!) but think it's a good idea. I like the idea of each accredited reporter paying for it themselves(except the t-shirt bit!) which will also help to stop people getting accredited & immediately claiming the card without actually using it & costing us money. Dottydotdot (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Still no update? I'm happy to help set up a system where people can order their card for a total cost to them of $5-$10, the t-shirts and accessories as a secondary thing that can be ordered separately.    Tris   00:23, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

Strategy Wiki

I don't think it was ever mentioned here, but this proposal is also on the Strategy Wiki under: Proposal:Wikinews Accredited Reporter Identity Cards --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 23:31, 13 September 2009 (UTC)

Cost Research

I'm doing a bit of research for cost research of both a printer, and print services. On top of what I can find, I'm emailing a few places. I'll put down what I find. Note: most printers start with ink & supplies for 100-250+ cards which is more than we're going to be printing for a ... long time (unless other Languages get involved). --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 00:18, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

• Print Service
  • Almar Laminating - 75$ for 10 cards. Initial batch of 50 cards @ $5 ea. Reorder 10 @ $5 ea or Reorder 1 @ $15 ea
  • SafeID.com - $55 one time design fee. 50 cards @ $4.50 ea. Reorders the same @ $4.50 ea
  • ID Superstore - $50 minimum. 4 to 10 cards will cost $14.95 each, 11 to 20 cards will cost $9.95 each.
  • Easy ID Card - $12 per card. Completely online process.
  • Quick ID Card - $11 per card. 5-10 cards $8.99. Online creator
• Printers
  • Zebra P100i Printer - Single Feed & Single-Sided - $1,120.00
  • Magicard Opera Printer - Single-Sided - $795.00
  • Fargo's Persona C30e Single Side Printer System - $1295.00
  • Ebay - I checked recently and found a used ID printer for as low as $400. This of course depends on availability.
  • Magicard Pronto Printer - Basic - $849.00
  • Magicard Tempo Single Sided Card Printer - $808
  • Magicard Opera 100 Single Sided Card Printer - $755

---

Well, based on what we've learned so far (thanks Shaka), I think that a printing service is more within our reach. It would also be easier to manage.

Let's face it, news is a harsh industry with brutal deadlines (even for comparative slackers like us), and we all get burnt out occasionally. For various reasons (work, school, burnout, death) users lose interest for weeks, months, or even years at a time (or forever:P). What happens when (when!) the user who we entrust the printer to drops off the face of the planet for 6 months? With a printing service the worst that happens if the person who volunteers to manage it is hit by a bus (and their password and email accounts are lost to us) is that we have to create a new account and resubmit our info. Not a big deal. With a printer we could be in serious shit if something like that happens.

I think that a printing service is the clear choice. Gopher65_talk 00:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm. I know that you favour Easy ID Card Shaka, but we have 46 accredited reporters who are (apparently) active, and 18 inactive users. I don't think that it's improbable that we could get 30 or even 50 users to participate.

• At $12 per card, Easy ID would be $552 for 50 cards. Individual cards are the same as bulk orders, apparently.
• At $55 (design fee) + 4.50 per card, SafeID.com would be $280 for the minimum 50 cards in the first batch (same for reorder I assume, minus the design fee, so 225 for subsequent orders).
• At $5 per card * 50 cards (reorder in batches of 10 for same price) it would cost $250 for Almar Laminating, but that is the sale price. Regular price is $7.50 per card, which would cost us $375, if the price jumps.

If individual people pay for their cards upfront, then it's not a big deal, and we should just go for the simplest option (Easy ID Card). But if we're going to subsidize some of the cost of these cards through either group donations (from a few of us who feel like giving) or by begging the WMF for a little bit of money, then price per card is a major consideration.

Also I'm wondering if we might be able to get exactly the same cards from different companies. Is it possible that we could utilize several of these services as our needs (and their prices) change? For instance: maybe in the first round of AR ID Badge Applications only 15 people sign up. We'd then go with Easy ID Card. But maybe 6 months later 55 people sign up. It would then be cheaper to use Almar Laminating or SafeID for the 50 cards, and perhaps order the extra 5 from Easy ID Card. Gopher65_talk 01:08, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

• First, I'd recommend against multiple companies. Even if we could get the exact same "setup" for each, they all tend to do things slightly differently.
• Our cost concerns are two fold. #1 - How much will it be for the first batch. More importantly #2 - How much will it be for one or two off prints. We're going to be doing the "every 6 months re-up" plan which means we'll have decent size batches (down the line) but we've also gotta be concerned with those who AR in the mean time and want their cards right then and there (versus AR'ing and waiting for the next 6 month order marker).
• I actually have no preference in printers other than NOT Easyidcard.com - Nifty idea for one off cards, but... I think it is fairly unprofessional looking. I'd much rather pay $50 for someone to make a semi professional layout once.
• I think each individual that wants a card should pay the costs up front. It boils down to what ever the card costs + bulk shipping to ordered (a few cents each) + say $2 shipping to end user (averaging out local US shipping cost & international). Probably $10 tops. $10 every 2-2.5 years isn't much.
• We should assume all these "Costs" researched previously are null and void. If we want to progress with this - here's the steps we should take (And I've been meaning to do).
  1. Alert all inactive AR's that they are going to be revoked.
  2. Alert all current AR's that they are up for renew
  3. Run a batch vote for all current AR's, provided no one has any complaints about you specifically... you pass by default.
  4. Contact all AR's that pass the above and ask them if they want an ID card.
  5. Take that number, get new prices from the above groups and any others we can find
  6. Figure out who we want to use, get the total cost.
  7. Get money from each AR that wants a card
  8. Order said cards
• Simple! --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 03:46, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Phone Verification

I think one very beneficial thing that could be done is to sort out some sort of phone accreditation verification line; like the UK Press Card system. As asking people to verify credentials on the internet often isn't an option in the field doing OR. I was aware something like this exists/existed in the US? I think if we had a system hooked up on skype or some kindof VOIP server (leave the techy details to those who've got a clue) that could be phoned, giving an automated system. A similar thing would work on the US side, just with a US local number. If the person rings, chooses the 'Verify Reporter' or something option, they should be asked to enter the persons Accredited Reporter number (from the card) and perhaps a PIN that's given privately to each reporter, then the system checks and reads the details, which the person can check against the card. What do people think? Feasible? --JulesMattsson (talk) 15:43, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

It could be done, actually fairly easily. You get a SIP or IAX DID, direct them at a machine running Asterisk (which is easy to put up), and generate some voice prompts. IIRC there was a package called "Festival" at one point that would do the robot reading, so it could be mostly database powered/automated. The problem is that DID's costs money. Now at one point we had a phone number to call in for this purpose and for scoops. The reality? No one used it. I think we should do the ID card thing and worry about phone number later, only if people run into the issue of needing phone verifications. Many many phones these days have browsers/internet... so they already can hit up WN:CV --ShakataGaNai ^{^_^} 01:01, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

We had phone verification for a long time. No one used it. See here. Bawolff ☺☻ 02:31, 19 February 2010 (UTC)

If someone would be willing to donate a Google Voice account, we could probably use that. We could have GV send a transcript of the e-mail to the list, and act on it based on that. --Thunderhead (talk) - _{(alt. account)} 12:59, 15 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, calls are free within the US, but outside the US it costs money. --Mikemoral♪♫ 22:41, 15 April 2010 (UTC)