Talk:Ukrainian tow boat 'Chelyabinsk' collides with bridge at Baja, Hungary

Active discussions

Comments for the reviewerEdit

Hungarian sourcesEdit

@0:15 - [Newsroom reporter:] "A hajóskapitány feltehetőleg az erős szél miatt vesztette el az irányítást a jármű fölött..."
"The captain lost his control over the boat probably because of heavy winds..."
@1:05 - "Egy biztonsági őr a parton volt a baleset idején; azonnal hívta a vízirendőröket. Telefonon nyilatkozott a Tényeknek: »kimentem, láttam, hogy gondban van az uszály, utána nekiütközött, végül is hát, ráfújta a szél vagy, utána már ott voltak a vízirendőrök meg a katasztrófavédelem«"
"A security guard was at the river bank at the time; he called river police immediately. [He] talked to Tények via phone: »I have stepped out [and] I had seen that the barge is in trouble, after that it collided [with the bridge], or at the end, the wind pushed it [into the bridge], after that the river police and [officers of the disaster] management arrived.«"
The source speaks in this manner, barely in whole sentences.
@1:20 - "Egy szakértő szerint a hajó rosszul vette be a Duna kanyarulatát, ezért ütközött a hídnak: »túlságosan a bajai oldal felé engedte el a tolatmány magát, és későn kezdett kapaszkodni a jobb part irányába«"
"According to one expert, the boat did not take the bend of the Danube well, that's why it collided with the bridge: »the assembly went too far towards the left bank, and started to correct towards the right bank belatedly«"
the caption identifies the interviewee as Gyula Szabó, nautical expert
bajai oldal - Baja is the town east of the river, hence it is on the left bank
@1:50 - [Reporter:] "A balesetben senki sem sérült meg, a hídon sem keletkezett jelentős kár, a vonat és az autóforgalom nem szünetelt."
"Noone was harmed during the incident, the bridge did not suffer signifact damage [and] the rail and road traffic [on it] did not halt"
@0:10 - "Az ukrán gabonaszállító Szerbia felé tartott a Dunán"
"The Ukrainian grain barge went towards Serbia on the Danube"
@0:30 - "A Duna közepén jelenleg több uszály is rakodásra vár. Ezek közül tegnap többen is a szétszakadt hajó segítségére siettek, melléúsztak, majd segítettek lehorgonyozni, végül egy tolóhajóval gyűjtötték össze az elszabadult részeket"
"Several barges queue for loading on the Danube. Several of them rushed to help the torn caravan, went near [the broke away barges], helped them anchor, then a towboat collected them together."
@1:00 - "»Kb. 200 méteres karaván, 33 méter a szélessége, és kb. 10 000 tonna az ő tömege, így megrakottan. Ez egy hatalmas nagy méret és egy hatalmas nagy súly ahhoz képest, hogy a bajai hídnak az átlag hajózó szélessége csupán 60 méter.« [...] Azt is mondta, hogy a pontos manővert csaknem három kilométerrel korábban megtervezik - ha baj van, nincs mit tenni."
"»[This was] a caravan of about 200 meters in length [and] 33 meters in width with a mass, together with its cargo, of about 10 000 metric tons. Keeping in mind that the navigable passage [under] the Baja bridge averages at only 60 metres, this is very large and very bulky.« [...] He also said that this manoeuvre has to be planned for 3 kilometres ahead, and, if anything goes wrong, there is no room for correction."
the caption identifies the interviewee as Dávid Pethő, helmsman (not of Chelyabinsk!)
@1:35 - "A hídpillérnek nem esett baja, és az ukrán hajó még tegnap továbbmehetett. A rendőrök a kapitányt megszondáztatták: nem volt ittas. A Rendőrség az RTL Híradóval azt közölte [... hogy], helyszíni szemlét tartott, és megállapította, hogy senki sem sérült meg, nem történt környezetszennyezés, és az uszály sem kapott léket"
"The pillar was not damaged and the Ukrainian boat could continue its passage yesterday. The captain underwent a breathalyser test by the police: he was not drunk. The police said to our channel [... that] they conducted an on-the-spot inspection, and concluded that noone was harmed, no environmental damage ensued and the barge hull was not penetrated."
"Elszabadult hat uszály Bajánál, miután hídpillérnek ütköztek, és leszakadtak az azokat toló ukrán Cseljabinszk nevű hajóról még hétfőn."
"Back in Monday, six barges broke free at Baja, after they have collided with a bridge pillar, and got separated from their towboat, the Ukrainian Chelyabinsk."
"A Duna Vizirendészeti Rendőrkapitányság víziközlekedési szabályok megsértése miatt szabálysértési eljárást fog lefolytatni."
"The police will start an administrative offense procedure because of the breach of waterway traffic protocol"
"Duna Vizirendészeti Rendőrkapitányság" is a department of the river police in charge of the Danube

Telex.hu is a page operated by the old editorial community of Index.hu (there was a mass resignation on June 21, 2020, after government pressure mounted on the portal. Telex.hu was founded in a few weeks time.)

Ukrainian sourceEdit

Used only for the name of the boat and her company.

Picture sourcesEdit

The Lower Danube Valley Water Authority operates a webcam which recorded the event.

  1. 12:53:00
  2. 12:53:30
  3. 12:54:00
  4. 12:54:30
  5. 12:55:00
  6. 12:55:30
  7. 12:56:00
  8. 12:56:30
  9. 12:57:00
  10. 12:57:30

Hope this helps. - Xbspiro (talk) 10:33, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

ImageEdit

@Xbspiro: in my opinion, the current thumbnail does not make it clear what I am looking at. Do you think a time-lapse like GIF (link) would better help the audience understand it? We could use that instead, if you think it is better. Thoughts? (Make using images from 12:36:30 to 13:59:30)
•–• 13:37, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

With all due respect, I think it's fine. It illustrates the situation well (there is a bridge, and a boat inside it. Wait, that's not good) and it's been captioned correctly. --Dylan Smithson (talk) 13:39, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Well, I can't see where the tow boat is, in the photo, and that is why, the comment.
•–• 13:45, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Oh, I see. Sorry. --Dylan Smithson (talk) 13:46, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Would fair use still apply to that many images? - Xbspiro (talk) 14:21, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
@Xbspiro: FU doctrine does not take into account how many stills were used -- there is commentary about it, which means it is still under FU.
•–• 14:25, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Then I would prefer the GIF myself. Could you upload it in place of the current still or would that disqualify you as a potential reviewer? - Xbspiro (talk) 14:37, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
I think this is on the grey area -- and I would have to ask either @Green Giant: or @Gryllida: to sight that edit.
•–• 14:44, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
Sighted. Gryllida (talk) 20:24, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

It might be an error on my end, but the GIF's colors (when viewed as a thumb) seem to be rather distorted. - Xbspiro (talk) 16:53, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Help with reviewEdit

@Xbspiro: can you please help me with the following?

  1. What is the meaning of "Its downstream route crossed the rail-road bridge at Baja over the Danube at marker 1480."? And how do I verify it?
  2. "his manoeuvre has to be planned for three kilometres ahead, and, if anything goes wrong, there is no room for correction, he added." Is it paraphrased? Or is it quoted?
  3. How do I verify "The Danube is an international waterway, and together with rivers Main and Rhine and the Rhine–Main–Danube Canal, it connects the Black Sea with the North Sea."?
    •–• 14:43, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Its downstream route crossed the rail-road bridge at Baja over the Danube at marker 1480Edit

There are several things compouneded here.

  1. "Its downstream route" - the ship traveled downstream; the RTL footage mentions that the ship was going towards Serbia, and the Danube flows from Hungary towards Croatia/Serbia.
  2. "rail-road bridge" - TV2 coverage: "the rail and road traffic [on it] did not halt". The bridge is a river crossing for rail line 154 and main road 55
  3. "over the Danube" - might not be the best choice; referring to the bridge which was built overarching the river (i.e. connecting its two banks)
I have borrowed this expression from Glosbe's corpus
  1. the river mile system marks places in kilometres from the final confluence of a flowing water body upstream.
"at marker 1480" is inteded to mean: "1480 kilometers upstream from the final confluence of the Danube". That marks the place of the bridge and the event. Can be replaced with a place name (Baja) - Xbspiro (talk) 15:01, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Review of revision 4611110 [Passed]Edit

Thank you for the review - I have expected it to be much more bumpier because of the language barrier. I won't readd the last sentence now: it seems that countries themselves designate waterbodies as "international waterway" with government decrees, and I could not find a source which would have gathered them together. - Xbspiro (talk) 16:48, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
You are welcome, Xbspiro. There were times when I had to translate and transliterate sources in English, so I am not entirely new to this.  :)
•–• 17:04, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
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