Talk:Hong Kong Democratic Party stirs up universal suffrage reform package controversy

To the reviewer, if any of the names look familiar to you, most of the names mentioned in four of my previous articles have been mentioned here, with the exception of Lee Cheuk-yan and a couple of non-radical politicians. :) Kayau (talk · contribs) 06:59, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Review of revision 1048441 [Failed]

Revision 1048441 of this article has been reviewed by Brian McNeil (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 10:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not ready: Comments by reviewer: Title does not, concisely, specify what controversy. Worse use of passive voice than I was guilty of when I started contributing. Please refer to Orwell's six rules in the style guide for guidance. Failed on sources as these are all in a language I do not know; and, believe we do not have any reviewers capable of competently comparing with this submission. Sorry! Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Revision 1048441 of this article has been reviewed by Brian McNeil (talk · contribs) and found not ready at 10:46, 22 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Newsworthiness: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Verifiability: Not ready: NPOV: Not reviewed. Please address other issues. Style: Not ready: Comments by reviewer: Title does not, concisely, specify what controversy. Worse use of passive voice than I was guilty of when I started contributing. Please refer to Orwell's six rules in the style guide for guidance. Failed on sources as these are all in a language I do not know; and, believe we do not have any reviewers capable of competently comparing with this submission. Sorry! Questions about the above? Ask. If possible, please address the above issues then resubmit the article for another review (by replacing {{tasks}} in the article with {{review}}). This talk page will be updated with subsequent reviews.

Hi, actually 3 sources are in English. Kayau (talk · contribs) 10:52, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Three sources out of seventeen. That's ³/₁₇ of the article's information. Can none of the Chinese sources be cut? Δενδοδγε _τ\^c 13:11, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

I've cut one, but the rest have to stay... unless the article is shortened too, which is something I don't want. Alternatively, someone could persuade User:KTo288 to review. I hope you reviewers will be more considerate and use google translate, thanks. Because tomorrow the council will meet and this will become old news! Kayau (talk · contribs) 14:15, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

• It has nothing to do with being considerate, I'm afraid. Google translate is not reliable enough. --Brian McNeil / ^talk 00:37, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

• Hmm, actually in the past people have relied on Google Translate quite heavily, especially for some of my Russian-sourced articles. As I recall, ZH -> EN translation is pretty decent due to the simplicity of Chinese grammar. Tempodivalse [talk] 00:40, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

<edit conflict, sorry for redundance>*Is the case different here? On the previous articles, the reviewer used Google translate to review them. Kayau (talk · contribs) 00:41, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

"Google Translate only helps where a reviewer is well-versed in the target language (English), and above 'tourist' in the source language." = I'd have to disagree with that. A lot of people who reviewed my Russian-sourced articles (or Kayau's other Hong Kong articles for that matter) don't have any knowledge of the source language, and there were no objections. Tempodivalse [talk] 00:45, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

A lot of people don't do proper reviews, either. I dislike rubber stamp reviews. A review is suppose to do a full copyedit, copycheck, and factcheck. You can do a basic factcheck with google translate, but a copycheck is almost impossible without at least *a little* knowledge of the source language. That's why I'll review Spanish articles, but I try and stay away from Chinese ones. I know just enough about Spanish to be able to do a copycheck of the article. Gopher65_talk 00:50, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Are you sure? Please use google traslate to translate the fifth source. The headline already says that 'Andrew' and 'Martin' are thinking of leaving. As there's only one Andrew and one Martin in the article, you can be quite sure that it's them. Kayau (talk · contribs) 00:55, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Apart from the reliability of Google Translate, I am also unable to find other sources. The only two notable English papers in Hong Kong are The Standard and the South China Morning Post. The latter requires subscription, while the former is free so it doesn't provide as much info as the SCMP, and I've 'used up' their articles as refs. BTW 'has been stirring' is a present perfect continuous as far as I know... Kayau (talk · contribs) 00:58, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Agree, it's not w:Passive voice at all. That would be "has been stirred (the subject does not do the action itself). w:Present perfect continuous should be perfectly acceptable for us. IIRC, the BBC uses this not infrequently. Tempodivalse [talk] 01:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Translations of extracts of the sources

I'll work on the translations here...

• Commercial Radio Hong Kong. "梁愛詩指民主黨的區議會改良方案可以考慮" — Yahoo! News, June 17, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Title translation: Elsie Leung says Democratic Party's District Council Method is Worth Consideration (title says it all)
• Sing Tao Daily. "社民連踩場追擊民主黨" — Yahoo! News, June 21, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Democratic Party elder Szeto Wah was present at the Alliance for Universal Suffrage meeting yesterday. He supports the Party's District Council method: 'Criticising the Democratic Party is betraying the Hong Kong people, and defamatory... Democratic Party lawmaker Cheung Man-kwong criticised some of those who opposed the method, and said that they should let people have the liberty of expressing themselves: 'using loudspeakers, foul language and threats to stop people from speaking is oppression not democracy... Democratic Party vice-chairperson Emily Lau said, Wong Yuk-man's (an LSD guy) saying that the democratic party and the central government doing a 'under-table trade' (OK, that's VERY literal but I don't know how to translate that) was incorrect, and was simply a conspiracy theory and condemned Wong for discrediting their party and insulting their members.
• Ming Pao. "粉絲罵民主黨 嬲到入醫院" — Yahoo! News, June 21, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • 80-year-old Chan suddenly yelled that he was betrayed by the Democratic Party during yesterday's meeting. 'Since the formation of the Democratic Party, I've supported them, but now they are supporting a proposal that has no promise at all... On the other side, a 31-year-old man named Cheung, who was wearing a shirt with the words 'fix the rotten proposal' printed on and waving a leaflet called 'the 2012 constitutional package is all wrong', said that he was not an LSD member and even voted for Emily Lau in 2008... but the craziest one must have been a middle-aged lady. She arrived at the venue at about 3 o'clock, and since then she'd kept shouting that the party has betrayed the Hong Kong people, and often rushed towards Democratic Party members to berate them...
  • But just as Ho stared to speak, he was booed and people shouted 'The Democratic Party is shameless! Albert ho has betrayed us!' At last, the head of the 廣播處 (whatever that is), Franklin Wong, had to go and pick him up with his car. However, when Wong's car drove out of the park, some 'Brothers of Victoria Park' still ran after him, and nearly 20 police officers had to protect him so that he could leave.
• Ming Pao. "民主黨高票撐 區會方案勢通過 鄭家富醞釀退黨 李柱銘稱考慮兩周" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Democratic Party votes yes with high support rate -- District Council method should pass -- Andrew Cheng may leave party as a result -- Martin Lee says he'll think it over for two weeks (Title says it all)
• Ming Pao. "李鄭一旦退黨 料近20人追隨" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010(Traditional Chinese)
  • If [Martin] Lee and [Andrew] Cheng leave, about 20 others are expected to follow them
• Ming Pao. "中央妥協 免政局激化失控 助下任特首拆彈 分析指習近平拍板增威望" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010} (Traditional Chinese)
  • Central Government's Cooperation prevents political situation's 'radicalisation' from getting too serious -- helps the next chief to 'dissect the bullet' (whatever that means, but I didn't say that in the article!) -- Studies say that Xi's decision gains himself reputation (title says it all)
• Ming Pao. "曾蔭權「讚過龍」 民主黨被誤棄終極普選" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • During the half-hour news conference, Chief Executive Donald Tsang had seven times praised the Democratic Party for their sincerity and responsiility.
• Commercial Radio Hong Kong. "曾憲梓指區議會方案得中央認同" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Tsang Hin-chi says District Council method is approved by central government (title)
  • Former National People's Congress member Tsang hin-chi said, the one-person-two-votes method, which had been accepted by the SAR government, was also approved by the central government and adhered to the Basic Law. It is one big step Hong Kong's political system, etc etc.
• Sing Tao Daily. "何俊仁私下爭取鄭涂支持方案" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Albert Ho tries to get [Andrew] Cheng's and [James] To's support in private (title says it all)
• Commercial Radio Hong Kong. "民主黨大會表決接納區議會改良方案" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010(Traditional Chinese)
  • Several LSD members and citizens went to the Causeway Bay branch of the Professional Teachers' Union yesterday, where the Democratic Party's meeting was held. They demanded that the Democrats should not back the proposal. When Albert ho left, they cried insults at him, and the police had to protect him so that he could get in the car and leave.
• Commercial Radio Hong Kong. "民主黨大會大比數票表決接納區議會改良方案" — Yahoo! News, June 22, 2010(Traditional Chinese)
  • The Democratic Party called for a meeting. After 5 hours of discussion, they decided to back the proposal. The legislative council proposal was supported by 246 people and opposed by 63; the chief executive proposal was backed by 237 and opposed by 71l...
• "范太籲反對派尊重主流民意" — Ta Kung Pao, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Mrs [Rita] Fan pledges opposition parties to respect the mainstream public opinion (title says it all)
• "公民黨堅持否決政改方案" — Ta Kung Pao, June 22, 2010 (Traditional Chinese)
  • Civic Party insists on opposing the reform package (title says it all)
• 李雨. "「區議會方案」的關鍵" — Hong Kong Political, Economic and Cultural Society,
  • Under the reform proposal, there will be ten new seats in the legislative council, five of which are geographical constituencies and the rest functional constituencies. The latter are all given to the District Council, so this proposal is called the District Council Proposal.

Done, feel free to ask for translations of more extracts in case I missed out any. Kayau (talk · contribs) 02:51, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

COULD SOMEONE PRETTY PLEASE REVIEW THIS? THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL MEETING IS TO BE HELD SOON! PLEASE! Kayau (talk · contribs) 03:07, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't mean to be rude, but the meeting is BEING HELD RIGHT NOW and results will be coming soon. Also, Andrew has already announced that he's leaving... Kayau (talk · contribs) 12:30, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

PLEASE! I can assure you this is much more important than Stanley McChrystal... :) (OK, it's not more important but it's certainly more urgent!) Kayau (talk · contribs) 14:54, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

I'll see what I can do... C628 (talk) 14:59, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I saw your removal on the article. Actually what the ref was talking about was focusing on the Democrats' amendments, not the whole thing, so only the five new functional constituencies were shown. I will add an extra ref for that (though I can't promise that it will be in Eng...) Kayau (talk · contribs) 15:14, 23 June 2010 (UTC)

Review of revision 1049056 [Passed]

Revision 1049056 of this article has been reviewed by C628 (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 15:23, 23 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: That gave me one hell of a headache...anyways, looks good, sorry about the wait. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.

Revision 1049056 of this article has been reviewed by C628 (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 15:23, 23 June 2010 (UTC). Copyright: Passed Newsworthiness: Passed Verifiability: Passed NPOV: Passed Style: Passed Comments by reviewer: That gave me one hell of a headache...anyways, looks good, sorry about the wait. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer.