The US finally begins to crawl out of the third world

The laws and policies of the United States do share several important traits with a variety of "Third World" countries usually considered less advanced, among these: 1. The United States has not yet abolished Capital Punishment, and it is extensively practiced and legally sanctioned in 39 states. 2. Domestic surveillance on US Citizens without due process, while technically prohibited by the nation's constitution, is indeed widely practiced and has been given retroactive approval by the US Congress. 3. Homosexual citizens are legally not endowed with the same rights as Heterosexual citizens, and as such are treated as second class citizens.4. Creationism - a religious fundamentalist doctrine -is legally taught alongside Evolution in some U.S. Public Schools. 5. Racial profiling is legally enshrined by the U.S State of Arizona with regards to inquiries by law enforcement into a person's immigration status. 6. The United states has no universal publicly-funded health system for its citizens, usually considered a mark of a "Developed" nation.

HaroldWilson'sWar (talk)21:06, 5 August 2010

You've produced a real mixed-bag there. Some of those things aren't true or are only half-truths (4, 5), others are true but even more true of other "Developed" countries (2, which is spot on for the U.K.), some true and unfortunate (3, though you've accompanied it with severe exaggerations), and others I fully support (1, 6). I don't, however, see the point. Why should I care? Why should anybody care? This whole idea of adducing similarities to Third World countries is just a red herring when the ultimate question is the worthiness or unworthiness of particular policy positions.

209.30.81.43 (talk)21:33, 5 August 2010

You support the US killing its criminals, and not providing everyone with healthcare (in effect killing the innocent)? It has been proven that capital punishment is not an effective deterrent (crime actually rose during the Bloody Code in England), and people have been proven innocent after their execution.

As for healthcare, I don't understand how anybody can oppose diverting some government funds to keeping people alive (after all, the US seems all too happy to deliberately kill millions in violation of international law: Iraq, for example).

2 is true for the UK, yes, but that does not mitigate its effects on the US.

The Third World comment was meant to indicate the backwards and uncivilised nature of Proposition 8 (note that I am not implying that all third world countries are savage and uncivilised—some, however, are, such as Uganda), and was therefore a comment on the policy, though I admit that the discussion has been somewhat sidetracked.

Δενδοδγε τ\c21:44, 5 August 2010

I think I'll decline to take this conversation yet farther afield. I'm not the one who introduced these issues, I just indicated my range of opinions on them to illustrate that I'm willing to side with things associated with the "Third World" on some issues and not on others. There's no reason to lump any of these together or to say that something is bad just because it's associated with less economically developed countries.

209.30.81.43 (talk)22:12, 5 August 2010
 

To comment on heath care, A lot in part is opposition from the GOP, who don't like spending much.

Mikemoral♪♫06:26, 6 August 2010
They most certainly love spending on illegal wars of Aggression against distant  petroleum-rich nations, they just disapprove of spending money on a social safety net for their fellow citizens.
HaroldWilson'sWar (talk)00:25, 7 September 2010

Rightly said.

Mikemoral♪♫03:48, 7 September 2010
 
 
 
Edited by author.
Last edit: 03:16, 9 August 2010

It would be interesting to hear how 4 and 5 are "half-truths" as you've put it. Creationism is legally taught in the U.S. state of Kansas (look it up if you don't believe me), while Arizona has recently passed a law requiring all police officers to inquire as to the immigration status of persons who they "suspect" may not be U.S. citizens or legal U.S. Immigrants while conducting other routine law enforcement activities, such as roadblocks and traffic stops. The very nature of such a law forces police to resort to superficial ethnic/"racial" characteristics, such as skin/hair colour, dialect etc. as guidelines for whom is considered "suspicious".

As for the comparisons of U.S. policies to "Third World" countries, it is a quite valid rubric for Americans to consider, especially as the United States conducts an aggressive, militaristic foreign policy which -although driven by geopolitics- is largely sold to the public in terms of promoting "democracy" "freedom" and "Human rights" in countries around the world. Such presumed moral authority is easily challenged if objective criteria are used to Compare the U.S. own domestic policies to those of other nations, both "Third World" and "First".

HaroldWilson'sWar (talk)22:02, 5 August 2010

Yes Indeed It has become sidetracked, It would be nice if the discussion stayed on the topic of the Prop 8 ruling. My "laundry list" was only meant to demonstrate the validity of using "Third world" as a rhetorical metaphor for certain U.S. policies

HaroldWilson'sWar (talk)22:08, 5 August 2010