Talk:Photo essay: Valentine's Day at the U.S. Viet Nam War Memorial

Wow, I mean WOW, exceptional work of photography. -Edbrown05 04:16, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Ed, thank you for the kind words. I will note that this was original photography and original reporting. I spoke with the folks interviewed last night and wanted to at least mention them in the article going with the photos. Ed, would you be so kind as to take a run at an edit here and publish if you feel its worthy?Drew 04:58, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

yes, pretty. but, sadly image are not on Commons ... I can't use then on fr.wikinews ... ! Jacques Divol 13:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Good work but don't forget the Korean War memorial.

I will see if I can load them to Commons. The idea from Amgine was to use them as wikinews photos. I wont forget Korea or WWII. However, the idea was to honor the visitors, not necessarily the war or the memorial itself.Drew 17:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The licnese you choose Is not aceptable by commons. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:17, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Gross NPOV violation

A; What is the last sentence "thank you"; is it a quote from a visitor or the pov of the author?

B; Are we ready for a photo essay from an official museum of the Vietnam war in the actual country where the war was fought?War Remnants Museum?....a photo essay like this? [1]. What's going on? Why would we be throwing our NPOV standard right out the window? If we want to honor these men, then do it on our own time and our own blogs. Neutralizer 15:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

yes, i see. the power of photo, i don't read the text, well ...

"In the darkness, you are moved to say "thank you" outloud and to cry with those who find a familiar name" could be removed. I visited WWII Memorials in Normandy, i understand this kind of feeling viewing the fields of crosses ... i was impressed BUT it's POV (even it's good images) ! War is never beautyfull Jacques Divol 15:17, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

it's not eventfull news, but it's an 'instantané' of life, the report of a simple day for simple people ... it's basic report Jacques Divol 16:42, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I removed the final comment. It was a quote and I couldn't read my notes regarding who said it with any certainty. The problem with writing in the dark. The intent of the piece was to report on visitors to the most visited memorial in the District on a day that could be heart rending (and it was) for many of the visitors. My intent was not to honor the war or the warriors or the country, but to report on some general emotion on an emotional day.Drew 17:02, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The final quote was meant to be ascribed, and got lost in my reporting/typing. My apologies.Drew 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The other concept here is to remove the picture of the 3 servicemen as it does not show visitors to the memorial. As much as I like the photo, It may not be appropriate in this context. As such it is removed and I will post it to commons under CC-BY-ND.Drew 17:07, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I think this article is great. It contrast to the Iraqreporting in an surrealistic way and any description of the U.S. Vietnam War in this context provoce a lot of feelings that in diffrent way make people think about the consequences when going to war of stupid reasons. International 17:24, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

It's not a news event at all, in addition to the pov problem. If someone went to visit the graveyard of Viet Cong soldiers on Valentine's day and took great photos and talked to the visitors would that be "news"? Neutralizer 18:27, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Neutralizer, I see your concerns. But why insist on policy that much to prevent this article from being published. Or have you been so conditioned by your interaction with the "policy dogs" of this cite that your sympathy for a simple recount of memories (as illustrated by international) has been lost? I do suggest however that the phrase "our connection" should be changed to reflect that wikinews has an international audience. --vonbergm 19:19, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I thought about the "our connection" quite a bit. We do have an International audience and it wasnt just US Citizens who died in the action. Perhaps it should read "The World's connection." This may be splitting hairs, but the action touched many, many people around the globe. I spoke as a world reporter, not necessarily a US one. Thanks for the commentDrew 23:33, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

The questionable POV quote, which was ascribed to a visitor in compliance with the WN:NPOV policy, has been removed. Are there further actionable POV concerns regarding this article? - Amgine | ^{talk en.WN} 20:12, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Correction: the quote was not ascribed. Good call Neutralizer, I'd missed that. - Amgine | ^{talk en.WN} 20:20, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

little fix that maybe make this NPOV for publishing, What do you think Neutralizer?International 22:37, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

This is a community

So I will go with the group; but please take note of this comment which shows this article could lead to various patriotic expressions which may be not news and certainly not NPOV. Anyone may remove the tag whenever you wish, as far as I'm concerned, but I must admit I am quite startled. Neutralizer 22:45, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

In fact I will remove it myself; thank you all for addressing my concerns which I must accept is a very minority view. Neutralizer 22:48, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

I appreciate that comment and in fact noted back to the author that I was not glorifying war or an action. My concern was the emotions evoked on this particular day and in this particular place. Thank you for all your comments and I will continue to learn by themDrew 23:29, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Layout

Beutiful pictures, but the layout of them doesn't look very nice in firefox 1.5.0.1 on cologne blue skin. (looks fine in IE using monobook. Mostly, the text and third image break incorectly. will try to fix. Bawolff ☺☻ 01:21, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Awesome photos

Awe-inspiring photographs, - I like them 125.236.44.48 02:01, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Beautiful... but why Valentine's day?

I like the idea of adding some creative juice into wikinews with photoessays, and i think the photos are stunning. Although I agree somewhat with neutralizer about NPOV issues... what really gets me is why is it on Valentine's day? Is it usual to mourn the dead in the USA on Valentine's day? If so this needs to be explained for international readers. Anyway, I think it is really beautiful and a good thing for wikinews (though it does open up a whole can of NPOV fish). ~The bellman | Smile 02:23, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I chose Valentine's Day because I noticed that people tend to remember lost loves on the day also and I think that is evidenced by the cards and flowers left at the memorial. I had another picture that I think pushed it over the edge of NPOV, but these pictures are recording people at the most visited monument in DC on a day that has some definite emotions. At least this was my thought.Drew 02:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I think we should recognize that this "article" is as Amgine's first edit summary said "(Init: testing concept)". In the US we have DDay and Memorial Day and a few other days to honor our servicemen and women. Valentine's day is not one of them. I'm sure the same "article" could have been done on Easter or Christmas or Thanksgiving or Mother's Day or Father's Day or Columbus Day or the 4th of July...in fact only Haloween might be a further stretch. The point is, this is a new concept that Amgine brought forward, I guess, as his is the first edit, and most contributors embrace it. Neutralizer 14:42, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

And,for the sake of honesty, we should also recognize that were this photo essay/visitor comments about similar events around tombs of Hezballah fighters on one of their holidays; it would have been speedily deleted long ago; at least I think so. Perhaps we should just admit our quite normal and natural pro-western bent(however slight it may be) and stop pretending otherwise? Just an idea. Neutralizer 14:52, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

But you know what? If I was near the Hezballah tombs, I would photograph that story also. To me in shooting this, it was the genuine emotion that the people visiting felt at that time and in that place. I removed the 3 servicemen photo because it became too much about the war with that picture. The nursing one is included because of the flowers left at the base of the statue. I understand why people are feeling the way the do here. Really I do. But, I would happily support any story about people feeling strongly about something. The rally photos where that, the VVM photos where that. I look for emotion in these types of photos. I also look for complete stories in the pictures I take. So please, if someone is in Jerusalem or The Golan or the West Bank, please take photographs. We seem to want to only report "Eventful" things here and I think, that the news is somewhat more broad than that. Yes, report on events! But we can report on how we as a world citizens live also. Drew 15:28, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Drew, your particular mindset is not the point, and I have no objection at all to you having brought forth such wonderful work. I am simply pointing out the systemic bias that I think is quite natural to any media. The only question is whether we accept it,ignore it, or try to overcome it. As of today, the reality is, should such photos come forward expressing the emotions of our government's enemies; you and I and many others here might support their being published; but the reality is; a similar photo essay concerning memorials for Hamas or Hezballah or WW2 Nazis or al-Queda fighters would never be published on today's Wikinews, in my opinion. Neutralizer 18:14, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't disagree with you here. There is of course a natural bias, no matter how hard we try. You gotta admit though, if a memorial for any of the aforementioned groups was ever made, it would certainly be news...and the people there would certainly be targets of press scutiny. Drew 18:22, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Spanish translation

El Memorial de la Guerra de Vietnam es el monumento lo mas visitado de Washington, DC, con cerca 4 millones de visitante por ano. Concebido como simbolo un memorial eterno de nuestra conexion con los veteranos de la guerra de Vietnam, el muro, tiene memorias muy fuertes para cada persona que la visita.

Just beginning the translation. Hopefully others can join in. Perhaps other langages can be added as well. Once the translation is complete, we can add it to Spanish Wikipedia. --198.59.190.201 03:58, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

That would be the spanish wikinews. See meta:WORTNET for cross-language translation coridination. You're also have to check to see if the spanish addition accepts CC-BY-ND photos. Good work Bawolff ☺☻ 22:48, 17 February 2006 (UTC)