Talk:On the campaign trail in the USA, October 2020

Latest comment: 3 years ago by Pi zero in topic Review of revision 4590516 [Passed]

Notes edit

Free & Equal debate #1 (October 8) edit

League of women voters format

11:00 - Opening statement edit

  • Carroll: Pro-life, climate change
  • Pierce - Two party system is incapable of resolving the problems we face 
  • La Riva: Capitalism is the problem. Healthcare is a right.  Billionaires and Trillionaires
  • Blankenship : offers 1 million to Hunter Biden to debate Joe Biden and same thing to Trump and he'll let Trump interrupt him as much as he wants. Establishment media is the problem as well 
  • Hawkins: Wearing a mask. Climate emergency (Green New Deal), inequality (economic bill of rights) 

21:00 - Cindy Sheehan asks the first question (Afghanistan) edit

  • Pierce: unclear whether positive impact. Leave without causing further problems
  • La Riva : bring all troops home worldwide immediately.  Stop all aide to Israel.   Lift sanctions against Cuba and Venezuela 
  • Blankenship: goal is not clear. Stop efforts to police world
  • Hawkins - "provide aide not arms" and 29:00 "Afghanistan is a symptom of militarism and imperialism and we need to get the hell out".  Doomsday clock is close to midnight. Prohibit nuclear weapons
  • Carroll: warns about pulling out and leaving a power vacuum. Get off addiction to oil.  Eisenhower said "Every time we drop a bomb, that's a hospital or school we can't build." 
  • Pierce extends - talking about ending conflicts on a case-by-case basis to avoid unintended consequences

33:00 Aaron Hamlin, center for election science - approval voting, rank choice edit

  • La Riva - equal media access,  ballot access,  overturn top two, allow immigrants, prisoners and youth 16-18 to vote.  Real democracy will come from socialism.
  • Blankenship - don't dilute efforts with changing election process, too complicated,  put more candidates on the ballot
  • Hawkins went through 47 primaries and favors rank choice, approval is complicated,  attacks electoral college to replace with national rank choice.  Full campaign financing. Signatures needed compared to UK, New Zealand.  Agrees that socialism will bring out true democracy. 
  • Carroll favors rank choice,  concerned about educating the public, favors federalism
  • Pierce favors rank choice but likes both. Allow voting from phone.  People should vote their conscience.  New York increasing number of signatures required for ballot access during the pandemic. 

47:00 Eli Beckerman of Open the Debates - describe 2 or 3 improvements to debates edit

  • Blankenship - three or four candidates on the debate stage. Debate through social media. Four corporations that control everything we see
  • Hawkins - commission is private corporation to perpetuate a fraud, get civic and media organizations involved,  public funded elections.   Favors League of Women voters before 1988 when the candidates got involved.
  • Carroll praises League of Women voters debates, supports public financing, education over entertainment, which is what the networks favor
  • Pierce better off if League of Women did it, voters says the polls are rigged to prevent from getting to 15 percent, calls for debates based on ballot access.  Sue for anti-trust on news networks.
  • La Riva talks about money required to run for office, praises Bernie Sanders for challenging the status quo, argues Democrats would rather have Trump than Sanders.
  • Blankenship extends - establishment, talks about being called a felon costing him the primary in West Virginia. Weaponized defamation.

1:00:00 - Sean Stone, Buzzsaw, Oliver Stone son, asks about surveillance edit

  • Hawkins - drop charges on Snowden and invite into cabinet for intelligence expertise to end surveillance state but use it for legitimate purposes, drop charges against Assange, protect whistle blowers
  • Carroll - agrees and concerned about Amazon and Google corporate surveillance and calls for the breakup of corporations,  anemic news media,  favors public financing of news media, for robust local coverage. Protection of whistle-blowers against corporations Pierce - should be constitutional or not at all technology is the largest issue we face, need visionary leadership, "your data is the most valuable commodity in the world"  Pardon Snowden and Assange
  • La Riva - calls Assange and Snowden heroic, surveillance state is one aspect of the police and military state against working people to keep power at the top for ruling class
  • Blankenship - rules are still the same.  No surveillance without a warrant and no surveillance by corporations.   "Enforce the Constitution and make laws consistent with the Constitution."
  • La Riva - talks about peaceful activists arrested in Denver protesting the killing of Elijah McClain

1:14:00 Jim Cantrell, co-founder of SpaceX.  Support for Space agency, warfare in Space edit

  • Carroll - reasonable to assume other nations will attack our interests in space.  If we militarized space it will lead to war.  international board to make rules about weapons in space.
  • Pierce - supports new Space agency,  needs Treaty to share space, asteroids, compare to federation from Star Trek
  • La Riva - purely militaristic aim for space agency - greatest purveyor of violence in the world is the United States.  "China and Russia are threats to the United States." Blankenship supports space agency and sees attack as an act of war.   space exploration is necessary it should be the US with the lead.  Would rather it be the United States in the lead.  The world has benefited from US superiority "That's actually one of my biggest concerns that the country is deteriorating so much financially, morally, and in every other respect that we will not maintain the position where we make sure the world remains peaceful and prosperous."
  • Hawkins - favors NASA. Space should be public sector, not militarized.  war is the worst answer especially with nuclear weapons around.  international body and make a country that causes problems to pay reparations .  

1:25:00 - Doug Good Feather - solutions for indigenous edit

  • Pierce says history is a lie and says acknowledging the past is the first step to healing. And making sure everyone has a seat at the table.
  • La Riva - respect native jurisdictions and native treaties, call on Trump to give clemency for Leonard Peltier
  • Blankenship - treatment of Indians is unfortunate,  unaware of it and favors learning more about it what Indian nations need
  • Hawkins - fair share of jurisdiction including environmental equality.   Indian Wars are still going on. Proportional representation
  • Carroll: We have broken treaties and stolen so much from the Indians.  Bible says do what you can to make it right plus 25 percent.  Do what we can to make up for what we short changed.   Favors gerrymandering to increase representation and bilingual education to preserve native languages

1:36:00 - Police reform edit

  • Blankenship says it would be a horrible mistake to Defund the police. Issues usually don't have anything to do with race. Slams no knock warrants. Point finger at the system not just the officer.
  • Hawkins says need community control of police, remove racists and sadists, marijuana should be legal, appearance tickets for hard drugs.  Allocate money elsewhere instead of militarized police
  • Carroll calls for demilitarizing police, build people instead of incarcerating them. Opposes Defund police.  Train police to deescalate.  Allow police to police themselves to remove bad actors. Pierce - has been to George Floyd memorial.  believes in law and order but says there is a problem and believes there should be a focus on training, police the place they live, end private prisons, end the war on drugs, pardon everyone for non violent offenses.  Measure by life and liberty rather than growth which can be good or bad
  • La Riva - recommend article on "How to abolish the police."  Fully supports defund the police.  Understand the genocidal nature of the nation to keep power with the capitalists, reduce prison population

1:47:00 - Reform education system edit

  • Hawkins - get kids back in the schools we got.  Suppress community spread.   Digital divide makes virtual learning difficulty.  Federal funding of public schools.  Support public schools. Private schools are often scams.
  • Carroll- disagrees on charter schools. Believes public schools are most important for most students but believes not for profit charter schools can be effective and that home schools can be effective. Get rid of standardized testing.  Federal funding but local control. 
  • Pierce - supports school choice.  Charter schools.  Believes the education system is more of an indoctrination and that children are not being taught things they need.  Teach kids finance, to code, and psychological help.  Find a way to heal and move forward
  • La Riva - Trump is criminally guilty.  Cites numbers in Cuba and says they have been more effective at stopping virus.  Fully implement Defense Production Act to build schools. Increase pay for teachers and free education. Opposes charter schools. 
  • Blankenship - says it has not been measured properly.  Death rate is way down this year.  We have fewer than the claimed 200,000 deaths.  Favors home schooling and opposes unionized teachers.

1:58:40 - Role of US in Yemen edit

  • Carroll - admit we are responsible by arming the Saudis.  Hold the Saudis responsible. Hold them to a higher standard. Insert humanitarian aide and stop bombing. Use our influence to bring peace
  • Pierce - we're in a humanitarian crisis ourselves.  Many of us may be refugees in the future.  We need compassion.
  • La Riva - support for Saudis causes Yemeni starvation.  Attacks on secular progressive states like iraq, iran, syria, and Libya has been the policy of the us
  • Blankenship - government should focus on people at home. Climate change is a waste of money. Spend tangible dollars on tangible things.  Put America first. 
  • Hawkins - diplomacy to resolve differences,  work with Saudis, worst refugee crisis since Ww2.

2:08:00 war on drugs edit

  • Pierce - end war on drugs.  Some drugs are looking like medicines.  Some medicines are looking like drugs.  Alternative medicines.   
  • La Riva - legal drugs kill millions. Prosecute banks.  Legalization is not helpful. 
  • Blankenship - do not end war on drugs. Treat users as victims. Look at people in power for prosecution. 
  • Hawkins - war on drugs is a business focused on minorities. Portugal program. Prosecute suppliers but not users. Decriminalize and provide medical services available. 
  • Carroll - anyone making money on someone's else's misery should be prosecuted. Marijuana has a retarding effect on the brain. 

2:20:00 Alternatives to global vaccination edit

  • La Riva - no alternative to vaccination.  Misinformation from Trump causes people to not trust vaccine. Remove the profit motive. 
  • Blankenship - daughter refuses to vaccinate but he supports it but it is difficult to require it under the constitution. 
  • Hawkins - against mandatory vaccinations.  Vaccines are great but government shouldn't force. 
  • Carroll - vaccinations should not be mandatory especially for profit purposes. Remove profit. Discusses abortion. 
  • Pierce - strongly opposed to mandatory vaccines. Says some vaccines could work.  Will not take a Covid vaccine. It changes the RNA and turns people into genetically modified humans. Not enough testing. It will probably be tested on soldiers.  No liability so drug companies have perverse profit motive. 
  • La Riva - SF fetal tissue, not babies. Stands for abortion rights.  
  • Carroll - Gloria has old info.  Juries not allowed to hear what is going on in SF concerning abortion clinics selling body parts.
  • Blankenship - agrees with protect other people with vaccines

2:34:00 - Gun rights edit

  • Hawkins - public has right to regulate access - universal background checks, training, therapy, Buyback program for assault rifles
  • Carroll - red flag laws, Congress should take lead. 
  • Pierce  - supports right to bear arms. Concerned about possible civil war due to increased gun purchases
  • La Riva - carroll statement about different laws shows the idea that black people shouldn't have guns.  Gun manufacturers can't be sued and use massacres to feed on white people's fears 
  • Blankenship - 100 percent protection for gun rights. If you ban guns only the criminals will have guns

2:42:00 - Ross Ulbricht mother - nonviolent life sentences, excessive imprisonment edit

  • Carroll - too many people in prison due to for profit prisons. Nonviolent should not be imprisoned though white collar crimes not prosecuted as much
  • Pierce - knows Ross not given a free trial.  Massive reform is needed. 
  • La Riva - ended racial discrimination and end capital punishment.  Vast majority do not belong in prison.  Even some in there for violent crimes
  • Blankenship - as a prisoner he knows about it. Excessive sentences. Talks about being sent to prison for a year for a misdemeanor
  • Hawkins - largest prison system in world.  Need alternatives like Restitution.   Release all political prisoners. Need more info about Ross Ulbricht 

2:51:00 final statements edit

  • Pierce - dream to heal divided states of America. Resource allocation problem. Life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. Vote conscience now
  • La Riva - corporations make large profits during pandemic - this is capitalism. Socialism brings Scott about equality 
  • Blankenship - u.s. constitution only thing here that will work. Rely on cost benefit and what we learned from our own behavior
  • Hawkins - this is how you have a civilized discussion. This will be a historic landslide so vote for what you believe in
  • Carroll - right to human dignity. Our society has lost it. Family is basic unit.  Access to healthcare but abortion is not healthcare. Resolve refugee crisis 

Free & Equal debate #2 (October 24) edit

Debate begins at 9:17:40 edit

Blankenship confirmed but did not attend.

  • La Riva - can no longer accept the capitialist system. They are ammassing money and taking advantage of the pandemic. Cancellation of all rents and mortgages.
  • Pierce - deeply concerned about America's future. Measure success by happiness
  • Hawkins - Green New Deal, Economic bill of rights, arms race, doomsday clock is at midnight, prohibit nuclear weapons
  • Carroll - America has strengths that can survive any of the crisis we are facing. Called a Democratic socialist but endorsed by a writer in the American Conservative

9:31:00 - Chad Peace - IVC media - rules implement to make sure rules are fair edit

  • Pierce - debates should be transparent and non partisan, be on enough ballots to win, fair polls. Make League of Women voters or other nonpartisan group in charge
  • Hawkins - Commission is a fraud. Needs public campaign finance. Ballot access should be gauge.
  • Carroll - remembers Nixon v. Kennedy debate. Basic rules and hold people to them. Public campaign finance. Overturn Citizens United. Higher campaign dialogue
  • La Riva - overturn citizens united. Abolish electoral college - should not be a gauge. Political system is only for the rich. Top 2 is anti-democratic

9:41:44 - Adam Kokesh - Freedom network - Veteran suicide causes edit

  • Hawkins - militaristic culture makes it harder to get back to society. Opioids is a problem because people don't want to get help because they are concerned about breaking the law. Macho culture thanking the military but the military is only protecting the interests of the higher ups
  • Carroll - Perpetrator induced - person he met messed up in Vietnam - send them to war turn them in racist killers and then try to bring them back into society
  • La Riva - Wars of aggression - horrible use of the working class teaching them to kill people. Korea was a genocidal war
  • Pierce - express gratitude to those in the military. Stop making war. Bring troops home on a case-by-case basis
  • La Riva - calls for return of all US troops around the world
  • Pierce - honorary ambassadorship in Korea. Wants the wall in DMZ to fall. End Gitmo and sanctions on Cuba

9:54:39 - Brian Anderson - Nexus - Military propaganda edit

  • Carroll - sending out stuff that is ridiculous. State has no business creating a state-run news. Make freedom of press healthier. Don't let government pump it up on its own
  • La Riva - propaganda against socialism. Prohibits propaganda into the US. For dissolution of the office
  • Pierce - Censorship by big tech is a real problem. Be a publisher or a platform.
  • Hawkins - get rid of it. Journalists can be called terrorists for interviewing people the government call terrorists. Corporate state media stenographers. Repeal Telecommunications Act of 1994 that allows consolidation of media. Public funding of independently owned media.

10:03:35 - Brian Anderson - Blockchain to alleviate centralized control of technologies edit

  • La Riva - technology works against the people in capitalism. technology would be beneficial under socialism.
  • Pierce - tech giants having monopolies is a problem. Artificial intelligence and quantum computing is a major issue and all the tech companies control it. Technology is not bad or good it is how it is used.
  • Hawkins - democratic socialism is more transparent and tech is leading us in that direction. Decentralize technology.
  • Carroll - principals of the constitution have not changed. Go back to checks and balances for businesses. Whole new level of government to regulate tech giants. Should not be one entity controlling it
  • La Riva - Expropriated so people can decide how to use the resources. New system - not moving around the chairs on sinking ship

10:13:27 - G. Edward Griffin - national sovereignty in treaties, federal reserve system edit

  • Pierce - favors treaties over war, practical realities of the moment and it starts with transparency - audit the fed
  • Hawkins - lose sovereignty to corporations not other nations. Fed should be nationalized.
  • Carroll - reexamine trade agreements - unforeseen consequences like corn growers with NAFTA forced north
  • La Riva - banks should be all nationalized. Cancel debt globally. US violates treaties all the time, not the other way around
  • Pierce - dollar is the foundation of the nation. It is at risk because of fiscal policy. How are we going to adapt. China is years ahead
  • Carroll - rewrite the 14th Amendment not to protect corporations. "If a bank robs people, someone has to go to jail"

10:25:30 Kaia Los Huertos - National Association of nonpartisan reformers - open primary, independent primary edit

  • Hawkins - parties should have freedom to determine whether to have open primaries. Supports rank choice voting and removing the electoral college. Shouldn't pay a primary for independents.
  • Carroll - jungle primary in CA and so parties become much less important. Calls for easier ballot access. Rank choice voting. "Open the doors so independent and small party people can get in." Needs some uniformity for write-in to avoid risking voiding their ballot.
  • La Riva - open primary - pick what party. top 2 denies the right of parties choose their own nominee. It is anti-democratic. Same day registration across the country and Sunday voting. Permanent, undocumented, prisoners, and youth 16-18 should be allowed to vote.
  • Pierce - tax payers fund used in primaries they should be available to all parties. Political party should determine whether it is opened or closed. Ballot access reform. Advocate for rank choice voting. Lincoln was the last third party candidate to become president. Created a government of rivals. Work together with other third parties.
  • Hawkins - rank choice gets rid of spoiler. Stop purging rolls to suppress the vote and voter ID. Democrats are suppressing the Green Party. Federal standards for ballot access reform. Voting Rights Act.

10:37:34 - Renaldo Pearson of Represent US - Rank choice voting edit

  • Carroll - platform says all elections should be rank choice or approval voting - task is educating the voter
  • La Riva - supports rank choice voting but the US system is highly undemocratic and unfair. Important that people organize. Cannot be resolved with changing the system
  • Pierce - yes to unrigging the system. Say campaigning is not essential and so that benefits the incumbents. Democratic process are under attack. Vote conscience. It is an illusion that you only have two choices.
  • Hawkins - Stop calling defeats victories. NYC had rank choice voting and so there were many parties in the council. Black Communist was elected and so they became concerned and eliminated it. Independent civil service agency administering the elections

10:44:00 - Question from Richard Winger - talking to state legislatures about changing ballot access laws edit

  • La Riva - thanks Richard Winger
  • Pierce - get involved. "Future is going to happen with you or to you." Look for people who want to step in as civil servants.
  • Hawkins - Green party continues to lobby for fairer ballot access. Richard Winger is an invaluable resource. Subscribe to ballot access news. "Battle to get on the damn ballot." "We exclude parties that are more popular than the two damn capitalist parties."
  • Carroll - people upset they cannot write-in in NC and SC. He tells them to talk to their legislators and make changes before 2022 or 2024

10:49:30 - Artifical intelligence regulation edit

  • Pierce - technology is amoral. How we use it determines the impact on our lives. We need visionary leadership with the foresight to navigate the road ahead. Quality of questions asked to tech leaders is embarrassing. Renaissance by 2030.
  • Hawkins - appropriate increased productivity for higher wages instead of the wealth continually going to the top. Tax and distribute as social dividend.
  • Carroll - capitalism only works if the people at the bottom have the money to purchase. Carbon fee and dividend to collect money on every carbon used and returns it to the people
  • La Riva - technology under capitalism is more exploitation and more inequality. UBI keeps people poor. Need better work. $20 minimum wage. Build mass transit in every town. Reparations for countries destroyed by US bombs. Reparations for black and native communities. Take wealth and give it back to the people
  • Pierce - blockchain base voting. First ballot cast in Utah is a blockchain based vote for Pierce. Access to internet, computer and economic understanding is essential
  • Carroll - Agrees with La Riva that jobs are more important than UBI. Advocates distributism - extreme capitalism. Don't agree with moving things to bitcoin.

10:58:00 - Approach to national debt edit

  • Hawkins - people don't have enough jobs. We can spend all kinds of money. Currency issuers no currency users The deficit we got is the deficit in people's needs being met.
  • Carroll - we put wars on credit cards leading to the deficit. Stop putting so much money in military. Put it in infrastructure, schools, hospitals. "we lose infrastructure every time we use a bomb."
  • La Riva - enough wealth in this country to satisfy everyone's needs. Indebtedness because corporations do not pay enough taxes. "Capitalism is killing people"
  • Pierce - debt crisis is real. Solution is government reform and restructuring. Fix administrative problems. Government has grown out of control and tax reform is necessary.

11:03:50 - Closing edit

  • Carroll - Pro-life for the whole life. In favor of things that make life better like universal healthcare. No push or incentive for abortion. Social justice - banking laws. Strong communities built on strong local businesses. Strong families to encourage helps that come along to help children. More and more entrepreneurs to break in, distributism, extreme capitalism. Stop global warming and promote peace.
  • La Riva - socialism is becoming more popular because capitalism is destroying their lives. Hurricane because of climate change caused by capitalism. Private ownership is the real dictatorship we live under. We need socialism.
  • Pierce - education - need effective education for everyone in the country. It is more like indoctrination. Re-legalize nature. Exempt Alaska, Hawaii, and Puerto Rico from Jones Act. Innovation is the answer. Innovate our way out of this mess. Act according to our conscience including voting according to our conscience.
  • Hawkins - COVID-19 shows this nation is a failed state. Further away than we were in March. Medicare for all. Ending endless wars. Don't waste your vote on someone who doesn't believe what you do.

Final pleas edit

  • E-mail with the final pleas previously forwarded to Scoop. It was the last question in the interviews with Jo Jorgensen, Phil Collins, and Bill Hammons.  I can resend if necessary.

Predictions edit

  • Facebook correspondence with Tom Tancredo forwarded to scoop
  • Twitter correspondence with Ron Gunzburger forwarded to scoop
  • Email correspondence with Thomas Knapp forwarded to scoop

Review notes edit

@William S. Saturn: Atm, the RealClearPolitics poll numbers given here for the start of the month are the numbers from September 1 rather than October 1. --Pi zero (talk) 01:31, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Thanks for letting me know. I will fix it.--William S. Saturn (talk) 01:52, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Thanks. I hope we don't step on each other's toes, as I may do some copyedits to the summary, here and there; foreseeing a terrific time crunch on this, I've been doing a bit of preliminary review of the summary, which is how I picked up this detail. --Pi zero (talk) 02:45, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Great.  I was expecting to submit this yesterday night but the Free & Equal debate section took longer than I expected. For the most part, all I have to do now is add images.--William S. Saturn (talk) 03:16, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I've not gotten as far as I'd hoped; I've done the short first-and-last paragraphs, and the first of the long paragraphs in the summary, and now have to get some shut-eye. Admittedly, though, that's better than not having started yet. --Pi zero (talk) 04:02, 1 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
I expect to stay up tonight either until I finish this review or until I'm incapable of continuing. If the sun rises and I'm still working on it, I'll assess the situation then and decide what to do from there.

As I write this, I've done the second big paragraph of the summary, and the final pleas and predictions; that leaves four big paragraphs of the summary, and the Free and Equal debates. --Pi zero (talk) 02:09, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Done three of six big paragraphs in the summary. --Pi zero (talk) 05:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Four of six. --Pi zero (talk) 06:34, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Five of six. --Pi zero (talk) 07:52, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done with the summary. What remains is the debates. --Pi zero (talk) 09:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]
Done the first debate. All that remains is the second debate. --Pi zero (talk) 13:14, 2 November 2020 (UTC)Reply[reply]

Review of revision 4590516 [Passed] edit

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