Talk:On the campaign trail in the USA, May 2024
Original notes
editNicholas Hensley
editcorrespondence via e-mail
chairman@reformparty.org to me May 29 I would like to issue a correction. The Kennedy team approached us on May 3rd at 2:41 PM.
- Hensley
On 2024-05-29 8:20 pm, chairman@reformparty.org wrote:
William Saturn,
Let's jump into this.
1. Let's start with the fact that the Reform Party of the United States is a qualified party (one of a few) that can raise $41,300 per donor instead of $10,000 like an unqualified party. This is because we have an advisory opinion (AO).
In 2024 Reform Party was not looking to nominate a candidate for President. Through the last few cycles, we had selected Presidential candidates that did nothing for the party. We put a lot resources into these elections and got nothing out of them. For this reason, we temporarily folded the Florida ballot line (we wanted to discourage any low level candidate from seeking our nomination) and worked on local races that did not need statewide ballot access. We were able to gain six public offices in this way and grew exponentially.
By the time 2024 came around, we thought it would be best to work on winnable, local races and look for local appointments rather than place a presidential candidate on the ballot that would get less than 100,000 votes. Minor parties of our size have limited resources and manpower- we needed to use that manpower to "build value" in the party.
This does not mean that we didn't attempt to recruit a presidential candidate in 2022 or 2023. We reached out to numerous potential candidates, but No Labels and us sat in the same part of the political spectrum. Since No Labels had more money than we did, most people were looking at No Labels. This blocked us from any meaningful conversations.
We did offer the use of our Advisory Opinion to a No Labels candidate. We even considered folding the No Labels ballot lines into our party and "handing over the keys". Several No Labels leaders talked about forming a new party in 2025. We would like to talk to them after this election, but the option of "taking the keys" is no longer on the table.
No Labels however failed to gain a candidate. All of the major 2024 candidates explored a presidential race in 2022 and declared in early 2023. By January of 2024, every major candidate (including Kennedy) had been on the campaign trail for 18 months. Any No Labels candidate that declared in 2024 was already 18 months behind - you can't make that up without a lot of money.
Kennedy explored running with the Reform Party backing in March or February. I had several discussion with Nick Brana and the Kennedy team. They settled with a different group, however those discussions did not pan out. We were approached again by the Kennedy team around the 12th or 13th of May. We had a video conference with Robert Kennedy Jr. and his team. This was good meeting, and the leadership reported it back to our membership.
Originally, the Reform Party was going to meet in May to prepare for an in-person convention in July. Rather than wait for July, the Reform Party Convention decided to act and nominate Kennedy under our rules. They discounted every other person that had approached us, and failed to nominate anyone else. The vote fell 17 for, 2 against, 2 abstains. The two abstains was myself as chair to maintain neutrality over the body and a previous chairman for a similar reason.
2. The modern American political party is a "tent" or broad coalition of members. If you can agree with 85 percent of a candidate's platform and compromise on the rest, you have a good a candidate to represent the party.
Some of the issues that we agree on:
A. The Economy is the most important issue
B. The United States needs to balance the budget and start repaying the debt
C. Special interest hold too much power
D. We need to end "endless wars"
E. The need for ethics reform.
We also agree on principles:
Even though Robert F. Kennedy Jr. and the Reform Party do not agree on every issue, both the Reform Party and RFK Jr. agree on listening to the opposition, debating facts, and understanding that you can't discount a solution just because it came from your political rivals. True leaders will listen to those around them, and forge consensus, regardless of political affiliation.
The Reform Party wishes to nominate and support winning candidates. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has a good chance of winning this election.
3. Our agreement right now is only Florida. We would however like to regain our ballot access in Mississippi and would only need a few volunteers to make that happen.
On 2024-05-29 1:53 pm, William Saturn wrote:
Three questions:
1. How did RFK Jr. become associated with the Reform Party? Did his campaign inquire about the nomination or did the party recruit him?
2. How does RFK Jr. fit in with the goals and political platform of the Reform Party?
3. On which states does the Reform Party expect to place RFK Jr. on the ballot?
Thanks
On Tuesday, May 28, 2024, <chairman@reformparty.org> wrote: Send 'em on.
On 2024-05-28 5:04 pm, William Saturn wrote:
Nick,
Could I ask you a few questions about the Reform Party's nomination of RFK Jr. for a Wikinews election special?
Andy Jacobs
editcorrespondence via e-mail
[Redacted] To: William Saturn Date: May 31, 2024, 12:13 PM
[Redacted]
I was in the 2nd row for the Trump speech. It was surreal. I give Trump credit to Trump for having the guts to show up, but I was among the many Libertarians who booed him. We also chanted things we want him to do, like "END THE FED," and, "FREE ROSS ULBRECHT!" We had to boo Trump for all of his bad policies and if we did not it would make it look to the world like we were Trump supporters and not our own party with its own different ideology.
Having said this, a lot of us, myself included, did applaud Trumo a few times, such as when he said he would do something good, like freeing Ross Ulbricht, and also when he critucized Joe Biden. Overall Trumo's speech was good as far as speeches go, and he did claim that he would do multiple things with which libertarians would agree, but the problem is that we have no way of trusting him to do any of those things.
On Friday, May 31, 2024 at 11:02:52 AM MDT, William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote:
I've been around, observing. [Redacted]
How was your experience at the convention and what did you think of Trump's speech?
On Friday, May 31, 2024, <[redacted]> wrote:
Yes.
[Redacted]
On Friday, May 31, 2024 at 12:29:42 AM MDT, William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote:
Andy,
Did you attend the Libertarian National Convention last weekend?
Michael Rectenwald
editcorrespondence via e-mail
Michael Rectenwald to me, michael@michaelrectenwald.com May 30
Hi William,
I intentionally took a gummy that I thought was a mild CBD gummy and I found out later that it was 100 mg of THC. I took it to relax my nerves, not to get high. Three other people at the convention were also knocked out by this same source.
Let me know if you want to know more. [Redacted].
Cheers,
Michael
Michael Rectenwald, Ph.D. Author, public speaker Former Distinguished Fellow, Hillsdale College Former Professor of Liberal Studies and Global Studies, NYU https://www.michaelrectenwald.com
On Thu, May 30, 2024 at 5:05 PM William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote: Mr. Rectenwald,
I am a reporter for Wikinews, the free news site.
I'm trying to get the inside story on what happened at the convention last weekend. You said that you consumed an edible on Day 3. Was it intentional or were you drugged?
Thanks,
William Saturn
Jeremy Kauffman
editcorrespondence via e-mail
Jeremy Kauffman to me May 31 Authoritarianism and egalitarianism are the two most dangerous ideologies in America. If I'm going to throw away my vote for the Libertarian candidate, I will not do it if they're an egalitarian who sides with the foreigner over the American, or the criminal over the upstanding citizen.
Trump has problems, but he's the only one offering the libertarians anything at all.
On Friday, May 31st, 2024 at 2:28 AM, William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote: Mr. Kauffman,
I am a reporter for Wikinews, the free news site.
I am doing an election special for the month of May and that includes the Libertarian National Convention.
As the individual who, during former President Trump's speech, held the sign that read "MAGA = Socialist", what ultimately convinced you to support President Trump?
Thanks,
William Saturn
Mike ter Maat
editcorrespondence via e-mail
Mike ter Maat to me, Press, Jim May 30 Hi William! If you would like more robust answers, we would be glad to set up time to chat. Otherwise . . .
1. Trump is no libertarian. It was interesting to see that he doesn't even understand liberty enough to fake it.
2. After my suggestion that the two sides work together without me as VP nominee was declined by the Mises Caucus leader, the next most unifying ticket possible was Chase and me.
3. My role is to raise awareness of our agenda and how it represents Americans' values: stopping the government from spending our money so we can keep more of it in our pockets; ending the Fed to stop inflation from undermining our ability to make ends meet; stopping the military-industrial complex from using our resources to project power and wreak destruction; and reforming the world's most oppressive criminal justice system by ending the war on drugs and holding law enforcement accountable.
Mike
From: William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> Sent: Thursday, May 30, 2024 5:13 AM To: Press <press@miketermaat.com> Cc: Mike ter Maat <mike@miketermaat.com>; Jim Turney <jim@miketermaat.com> Subject: Re: Wikinews inquiry
Here's my questions for Mike:
1. What is your reaction to former President Trump's speech to the Libertarian National Convention?
2. After you were eliminated on the 5th ballot of the presidential vote, why did you accept the VP offer of Chase Oliver over the VP offer from the other remaining candidate Michael Rectenwald?
3. What duties make up your role as vice presidential nominee and how do you complement Chase Oliver on the ticket?
On Wednesday, May 29, 2024, Press <press@miketermaat.com> wrote: Hi William,
Yes, please feel free to email any questions. I’ve also copied Chase’s team if you’d like to ask him any questions too.
Thank you,
Gabrielle
Gabrielle Cordova
Outreach Director
gabrielle@miketermaat.com | 202-813-0580
www.MiketerMaat.com | www.GoldNewDeal.org
Support Mike’s campaign with a donation today!
From: William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> Sent: Monday, May 27, 2024 1:47 AM To: Press <press@miketermaat.com> Subject: Wikinews inquiry
Mike,
Congratulations on winning the LP's vp nomination.
I am a reporter for Wikinews, the free news site. Could I ask a few questions via email about the campaign?
Thanks,
William Saturn
William S. Saturn (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2024 (UTC)
- Would you mind forwarding these to scoop (or did you already and the wn-reporters mailserver isn't forwarding them to me)? I could work with the copies provided here but I'd much prefer the former. Heavy Water (talk) 04:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
Done --William S. Saturn (talk) 05:31, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
- @Heavy Water, can we please get this published @William S. Saturn BigKrow (talk) 23:26, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
Review
edit@William S. Saturn: I've struggled to view the following page, possibly because of GDPR. Doing a Bing search shows the link plus a headline but the page shows it is unavailable. I tried saving it on Archive.org but the page shows as a redirect to MSN.com. No luck with Google Cache either. Do you know if any alternative places to view the article?
The following page won't load because it has very sensitive security systems that seem to treat any incoming request as potentially hostile. As it is an aggregator site, could you try to see where they got the news from and perhaps post that instead?
[24Cr][talk] 09:46, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- https://reformparty.org/reform-party-elects-new-officers-and-fills-vacancies/?fbclid=IwAR2s8qhbqsnT6UaiT0tL8j8Al7Tz3J_7UN5VTWiuZNca5Tn4M7uoaZlMgwA - Official source--William S. Saturn (talk) 16:41, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- @William S. Saturn: Cheers. Scratch the second link - I've found a way around the security (nothing illegal, I promise). I think it's as much to do with my location as their defences. Still cannot find the MSN article though. [24Cr][talk] 16:53, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- https://x.com/DrJillStein/status/1794801037087551626 - This seems to be the source for the MSN report.--William S. Saturn (talk) 16:57, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
- @William S. Saturn: Cheers. Scratch the second link - I've found a way around the security (nothing illegal, I promise). I think it's as much to do with my location as their defences. Still cannot find the MSN article though. [24Cr][talk] 16:53, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
Review of revision 4788818 [Passed]
edit  |
Revision 4788818 of this article has been reviewed by Cromium (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: Very minor changes made. Otherwise excellent work. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer. |
Revision 4788818 of this article has been reviewed by Cromium (talk · contribs) and has passed its review at 23:16, 28 June 2024 (UTC).
Comments by reviewer: Very minor changes made. Otherwise excellent work. The reviewed revision should automatically have been edited by removing {{Review}} and adding {{Publish}} at the bottom, and the edit sighted; if this did not happen, it may be done manually by a reviewer. |
- I happened to encounter a few problems here:
- The Independent Political Report article was written by William S. Saturn, which amounts to circular sourcing. I don't know if that warrants a disclaimer (as distinguished from a correction) as with Germanwings crash victims identified.
- I'm quite sure Trump visited only one bodega during the trial, and that in Manhattan, not Brooklyn. The only source I could find that mentioned a Trump bodega visit (the Fox 5 NY one) said, indeed, that it was in Harlem. That definitely warrants a correction, IMO.
- Also, for the future, it is better to avoid The New York Times even if the reviewer can get access somehow, per WN:PAYWALL. Heavy Water (talk) 21:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC)
- Changing the city is a minor change under WN:correction policy that doesn't affect anything substantial. --William S. Saturn (talk) 03:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)
- William S. Saturn: I'm not going to edit-war with you. These are established conventions. Brooklyn => Harlem is a factual correction; you just can't do that past the 24-hour window. The Sources section is a documentation of what sources were relied upon in the final pre-publication version of the article. By Cromium's last comment in the previous section, they apparently relied upon the IPR article instead of the press release you provided as an alternate source. If it becomes clear Cromium actually relied upon the press release and just failed to update the Sources section, I'd support you replacing the source in the spirit rather than letter of that convention. But changing the source post-publication here is deceptive to readers. Heavy Water (talk) 21:59, 27 August 2024 (UTC)
- Changing the city is a minor change under WN:correction policy that doesn't affect anything substantial. --William S. Saturn (talk) 03:31, 3 July 2024 (UTC)