Talk:On the campaign trail in the USA, August 2020

Active discussions

OR?Edit

I don't see an OR tag, nor OR notes here on the talk page.

  • Granted, I can work on reviewing the summary for a while; and mean to do so (remembering how things ran behind schedule last month).
  • We need documentation to verify the OR elements of the spotlight sections.
  • Just to say it out loud, these monthly articles need OR to avoid the freshness problem that would otherwise confront an overview of events from the previous month.

--Pi zero (talk) 15:56, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

Courtesy ping @William S. Saturn:.
•–• 16:19, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
If you want to send files to scoop, it is scoop[@]wn-reporters.org, @William S. Saturn:. However, I would strongly suggest you to join #wikinewsie-group on freenode for this purpose once. If you are having trouble connecting to it, please ping me and I will find a way to help you.
•–• 16:26, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
I still need to add some photos, add OR notes, and forward the emails. I was half awake when I hit the review button but I think I figured the non-original material could be checked in the meantime. I've never used freenode but I will try it once I finish here.--William S. Saturn (talk) 17:54, 25 September 2020 (UTC)
Heh. Yeah, I noticed you were up pretty late working on it. Thx. --Pi zero (talk) 17:57, 25 September 2020 (UTC)

┌─────────────────────────────────┘
Can confirm I have received the email via scoop. It is too late, but if you have some minutes, @William S. Saturn:, we can try the IRC thing.
•–• 07:13, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

Is there a link to it?--William S. Saturn (talk) 07:41, 26 September 2020 (UTC)
@William S. Saturn: Yes, you need to go this link, click on "Add a network", type "irc.freenode.net" in server, nickname as "WSS" or something similar -- your choice, click on connect. Then, in "Send message", type "/j #wikinewsie-group". That should do. (If you can't type the last step -- that dismiss the browser notification popup.)
•–• 07:45, 26 September 2020 (UTC)

NotesEdit

Bat attackEdit

Steve Dasbach correspondenceEdit

Steve Dasbach to me 6 days agoDetails I believe this information was in my earlier emails. Yes it occurred in the early morning in SC. Jo's aide Jess Mears and I witnessed it. I was driving them to the airport to catch a flight to Pittsburg.

Get Outlook for Android

From: William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2020 3:37:08 PM

To: Steve Dasbach [redacted] Subject: Re: Bat attack

I'm finalizing this story.

Can you confirm the incident took place in SC?

And did anyone else witness the attack?

On 9/3/20, William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote: > But her home is in SC, right? > > On Wed, Sep 2, 2020 at 4:12 AM Steve Dasbach [redacted] wrote: > >> No and no. Pittsburg PA. >> >> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 2, 2020 1:47:31 AM >> *To:* Steve Dasbach [redacted] >> *Subject:* Re: Bat attack >> >> So it happened in South Carolina? Does she live near any caves? >> >> And that's Pittsburg, Mississippi, correct? >> >> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 5:18 AM Steve Dasbach [redacted] >> wrote: >> >> William, >> >> It occurred at about 5:30am the morning of August 1, on the front porch >> of >> Dr. Jorgensen's home. We were picking her up to drive to the airport. >> She >> and her aide were flying to Pittsburg to start her bus tour. >> >> Once they determined that the bat had broken her skin, an appointment was >> made in Pittsburg to receive the first rabies shot. >> >> Steve Dasbach >> >> Get Outlook for Android <https://aka.ms/ghei36> >> >> ------------------------------ >> *From:* William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> >> *Sent:* Tuesday, September 1, 2020 3:16:44 AM >> *To:* [redacted] >> *Subject:* Bat attack >> >> Mr. Dasbach, >> >> I am writing an article for Wikinews about the bat attack on Jo Jorgensen >> last month. >> >> Do you have any details about the bat attack or where exactly it >> happened? >> >> Any images of the bite itself? >> >> Thanks, >> >> William Saturn >> Accredited Wikinews Reporter

Jess Mears correspondenceEdit

William Saturn to [redacted] 4 days agoDetails Jess,

I am writing an article for Wikinews about the bat attack on Jo Jorgensen last month.

What do you recall about the attack?

Did you see the bat?

Thanks,

William Saturn Accredited Wikinews Reporter J Jess Mears to me 4 days agoDetails Hi William, there’s a video on her Facebook that has the in depth story in her words about the bat.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Sep 21, 2020, at 12:04 PM, William Saturn <wssaturn@gmail.com> wrote: > > Jess, > > I am writing an article for Wikinews about the bat attack on Jo > Jorgensen last month. > > What do you recall about the attack? > > Did you see the bat? > > Thanks, > > William Saturn > Accredited Wikinews Reporter

AIPEdit

Darcy Richardson correspondenceEdit

Text Message to Mark Seidenberg D Darcy Richardson to [redacted], [redacted] Aug 15Details The Alliance Party deserved better than this.

In any case, here's a text message I sent to Mark Seidenberg at 11:57 this evening.

"Mark,

Please let Rocky know that if he runs with the unstable, bi-polar Trump-loving Kanye West in California that I will withdraw as his vice-presidential running mate nationally.

I've spent my entire adult life battling the duopoly and certainly DO NOT want my name associated with a candidacy that peripherally includes a Trump/GOP plant like the unhinged rapper....Bill Shearer must be rolling over in his grave."

Seidenberg, of course, has been on Rocky's company --- and to a lesser extent, campaign --- payrolls for quite some time. Just like Joe Wendt, another avid Trump supporter...

Rocky De La Fuente-Kanye West. A ticket, according to Seidenberg, that's designed to siphon votes from Joe Biden in the nation's most populous state. Biden will will win by 2-3 million votes there, so it really doesn't matter. A stranger ticket would be hard to imagine, even in California.

With best wishes,


Darcy


Text Message to Mark Seidenberg D Darcy Richardson to [redacted], [redacted] Aug 15Details The Alliance Party deserved better than this.

In any case, here's a text message I sent to Mark Seidenberg at 11:57 this evening.

"Mark,

Please let Rocky know that if he runs with the unstable, bi-polar Trump-loving Kanye West in California that I will withdraw as his vice-presidential running mate nationally.

I've spent my entire adult life battling the duopoly and certainly DO NOT want my name associated with a candidacy that peripherally includes a Trump/GOP plant like the unhinged rapper....Bill Shearer must be rolling over in his grave."

Seidenberg, of course, has been on Rocky's company --- and to a lesser extent, campaign --- payrolls for quite some time. Just like Joe Wendt, another avid Trump supporter...

Rocky De La Fuente-Kanye West. A ticket, according to Seidenberg, that's designed to siphon votes from Joe Biden in the nation's most populous state. Biden will will win by 2-3 million votes there, so it really doesn't matter. A stranger ticket would be hard to imagine, even in California.

With best wishes,


Darcy

William Saturn to Darcy Aug 26Details Darcy,

Has Rocky said anything to you since the AIP nomination? D Darcy Richardson to me Aug 26Details Hi William,

I've spoken with Rocky a couple of times since the AIP convention in California.

Despite the odd pairing in the nation's most populous state, I remain fully committed to his candidacy and the broader Alliance Party movement. It's my understanding that the Alliance Party will be issuing a statement to that effect in the not-too-distant future.

With best wishes,

Darcy

Rocky De La Fuente correspondenceEdit

William Saturn to roque 6 days agoDetails Rocky,

Could you explain your relationship with Mark Seidenberg?

Was he on your payroll in order for you to obtain the AIP nomination?

Thanks,

William Saturn Accredited Wikinews Reporter R Roque De La Fuente to me 5 days agoDetails No

Roque

Email to Mark SeidenbergEdit

William Saturn to [redacted] Sep 4Details Mr. Seidenberg,

I am writing an article for Wikinews about the AIP's nomination of Rocky De La Fuente for President.

Can you respond to the allegation that De La Fuente's payments to you, as listed in FEC records, encouraged his nomination for president?

Also, can you respond to the allegation that the De La Fuente/Kanye West ticket was nominated to take votes from Democratic nominee Joe Biden and help President Trump in California?

Lastly, do you feel Kamala Harris is a natural born citizen and qualified to be Vice President?

Thanks,

William Saturn Accredited Wikinews Reporter

[no response]

Email to Markham RobinsonEdit

William Saturn to Mark 6 days agoDetails Mr. Robinson,

I am writing an article for Wikinews about the AIP's nomination of Rocky De La Fuente for President.

Can you respond to the allegation that De La Fuente's payments to Mark Seidenberg, as listed in FEC records, encouraged De La Fuente's nomination for president?

Also, can you respond to the allegation that the De La Fuente/Kanye West ticket was nominated to take votes from Democratic nominee Joe Biden and help President Trump in California?

Lastly, do you feel Kamala Harris is a natural born citizen and qualified to be Vice President?

Thanks,

William Saturn Accredited Wikinews Reporter

[no response]

BirtherEdit

Andy Martin Press ReleaseEdit

Is Kamala Harris a Natural Born Citizen? The Birthers are back! A Andy Martin to [redacted] Aug 15Details Based on new questions about whether Senator Kamala Harris is a “Natural Born Citizen,” eligible to serve as president, Republican U. S. Senate candidate Andy Martin explains the origins of the Natural Born Citizen Clause in the U. S. Constitution and discusses how the NBC Clause applies to former President Obama, President Trump and Senator Harris. Andy is credited with creating the “Birther” movement because of his efforts to seek access to candidate Barack Obama’s birth certificate. Andy has been an adjunct professor of law and a recognized constitutional scholar in federal and state courts. He is a candidate in the 2020 New Hampshire U. S. Senate primary.


---


JUST A REMINDER We try to avoid sending unwanted emails. Andy Martin is the Executive Editor of ContrarianCommentary.com with “contrarian” observations on matters ranging from New Hampshire to national politics and international issues. Andy is also recognized as New Hampshire’s leading corruption fighter as well as a leading national conservative activist. He is an independent Republican Party leader and 2020 U. S. Senate candidate. If your needs or interests change and you no longer want to receive our emails, please “Reply” to this email with REMOVE in the subject line and we will promptly remove your address. And, as always, Andy welcomes your comments, reactions, suggestions and general observations. That’s what we’re here for. Read on.

---


ANDY MARTIN /2020

Republican for U. S. Senator

New Hampshire


www.AndyMartin2020.com

www.AndyMartin.com

www.FirstRespondersOnline.us

Headquarters:

[redacted]

Blogs:

www.AndyMartin2020.blogspot.com

www.AndyMartin2020.wordpress.com


August 15, 2020


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE:


Dear Granite State Voter:


Sixteen years ago, I created the anti-Obama “Birther” movement. Only I wasn’t a Birther myself. My scholarly research into Obama’s origins began with news conferences that exposed Obama’s “life story” as largely a fraud (please see link [1] below). Sixteen years later, The Atlantic Magazine again confirmed my creation of the Birther movement (please see link [2] below).


What I began as fact-based investigation took on an independent life as people like Donald Trump appropriated my research and fictionalized it for their own purposes. I never suggested Obama was born in Kenya. That theory was nonsense. I never suggested Obama was born anywhere but Honolulu. There was no credible evidence to support the claim. Nevertheless, the media went on accusing me of being the founder of the Birther movement.


In 2018, Adam Sexton of WMUR-TV, who had over a decade to research the question he posed to me in a televised debate, falsely accused me of creating doubt about where Obama was born. Sexton was either lying or incompetent. I had never questioned where Obama was born. I just wanted a copy of the birth certificate.


I remember once in Hawai’i having a phone call with one of my readers. I told her my scholarly integrity prevented me from lying about the facts of Obama’s origins. She laughed and said, “We love you Andy because you stick to the facts and tell the truth. But then we add a few ornaments to suit our own purposes.” Such is life. We own our own words; but we do not own what others make of them.


The focus of my inquiry was always seeking access to examine Obama’s original birth certificate (please see link [3] below for the original 2008 court order).


What I did accomplish, at a time when little was known about Obama’s origins, and when most of his own “autobiography” was fiction, was to relentlessly focus on Obama’s murky family history. In that I succeeded admirably. The Birther movement has become in the minds of left-wing media the largest “conspiracy theory” in history. There was no conspiracy on my part; just the facts and evidence.


I did not have the sheer media power to force Obama to release what Obama claimed was his original birth certificate. Donald Trump did force Obama’s hand.


Even after Obama was elected, I continued to organize opposition to Obama taking office, triggering challenges to his formal election in the Electoral College. I am still fighting to expose Obama because he remains the greatest political fraud in American history.


So, what does all of this have to do with Kamala Harris in 2020? The same legal issues that I wrote about in 2007-2008, raising questions about the “Natural Born Citizen Clause” in the Constitution, apply as much to Harris as they did to Obama. My constitutional analysis is not a conspiracy theory and it is not a racist attack. My scholarly research was and is firmly grounded in American constitutional history.


And so, more than a decade later, I am repeating what I wrote about Obama because it clearly applies to Kamala Harris and – surprise – even President Trump himself.


Please bear with me. The concepts are a little complicated but I will try to make them understandable.


1. Why was the “National Born Citizen Clause” put in the Constitution?


America today is the great global colossus. Because most of us are ignorant about American history, we have no idea what a puny, vulnerable nation the “United States of America” was in 1789. While popular history focuses on colonists fighting British forces and King George of England, much of the American-born and immigrant stock was of German origin, particularly once you left the coastal cities. The drafters of the Constitution, well-aware that German-speaking Americans were prevalent, worried that a German Prince would come to America and father a child to establish Germanic hegemony of the new nation.


2. Did the term “natural born citizen” have a specific meaning in 1789?


Section 1 of Article 2 of the Constitution requires that a president or vice president be a “natural born citizen.” The term is not defined, so we have to look at constitutional law and theory in 1789 to determine if the term had an understood meaning. It did.


We start with the canon of constitutional construction that in constitutional documents, all words have meaning; words are not inserted in a constitution without an intended purpose. The NBC Clause was intentionally inserted in the Constitution.


Under commonly understood legal theory in 1789, a natural born citizen had both parents born in the United States. Being born yourself in the U. S. made you a “citizen.” But you were “natural born,” and therefore eligible to serve as president, only if both of your parents had also been born in the U. S. That is how the founders intended to prevent foreigners from coming to the U. S. and procreating a baby who would then be eligible for the presidency. The “both parents had to be born in the U. S.” clause was intended to be a significant barrier to eligibility.


3. Did the Fourteenth Amendment silently amend the Constitution?


The Fourteenth Amendment and the Supreme Court’s “Citizenship Cases” gave the Fourteenth Amendment a broad sweep. But did the Congress that drafted the Fourteenth Amendment intend to nullify the “natural born citizen” requirement of Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution? As a conservative, I would say “no.” The NBC Clause is still in effect, albeit not enforced. The Fourteenth Amendment makes you a “citizen” if you were born in the U. S. but it does not make you a “natural born citizen” under the language and usage in 1789.


4. Is the Natural Born Citizen Clause enforceable?


If the NBC Clause is still there, can anyone enforce it? Probably not. In 2008 there were lots of lawsuits seeking to litigate NBC Clause issues. All of them failed. The courts have created a “wall” around the NBC Clause, to the point that no one has a right to go to court and enforce it.


5. So is Kamala a natural born citizen?


If you apply the term as it was adopted and understood in 1789, no, she is not. Both of her parents were born outside the United States.


But what if one parent was born in the United States? President Trump’s mother was born in Scotland; does his citizenship fail because he is only 50% natural born (through his father)? Obama’s mother was clearly born in the U. S. Did his 50% natural born status satisfy the requirement? In both cases, there is no legal process to challenge their eligibility.


6. Is the Natural Born Citizen Clause debate racist?


Not at all. Over the decades, many potential and actual presidential candidates have come under scrutiny because of where they were born or their parentage. As noted above, the NBC Clause was originally intended to block German nobility from coming to the U. S. and trying to create a German state or substate. The Founders in 1789 had no intent to bar African-Americans through the NBC Clause. So, the shrill complaints of guests on MSNBC and CNN, screaming that any invocation of the NBC Clause is “racist,” are unfounded.


President Obama served 8 years in office despite the fact his alleged father was a foreigner. I do not think that the Scottish birth of President Trump’s mother should cause him to lose sleep he will be barred from office. And Kamala Harris can probably rest easy that despite the renewed debate over the NBC Clause, she will not be blocked from taking the oath of office if she and Biden win.


I hope I have taken a complex constitutional issue and made it understandable. You may disagree with me, but at least you understand the law and history of the NBC Clause and you can judge for yourself.


Best wishes,


Andy

Section headingsEdit

I've been really wondering about those section headings "Fear and loathing in the AIP" and, to a lesser extent, "Return of the Birthers". Are these neutral? Are they not neutral? I'd hate to drain all the color from our reportage in over-zealous pursuit of neutrality, while at the same time we really do need to be strictly neutral. --Pi zero (talk) 01:20, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

After reading up on the assocations of "fear and loathing", I've decided to back off a bit on that one. --Pi zero (talk) 15:59, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Neutrality in covering the new crop of birtherismEdit

The current section on the birther thing fails neutrality by omission: it gets through about 80–85% of its text before mentioning how fringe the birther theories are. This perspective needs to be clear up-front.

  • It may be easily fixed. It may be possible for a reviewer to fix (without disqualifying themself from reviewing the article). I'm considering those questions; but meanwhile it seemed desirable to leave a note here.
  • The CBS News source about the birthers announces in its headline that their claims are false; this sort of up-front fact-checking is something US msm have been learning to do over the past several years (since 2016).
  • We wouldn't put it that way because it would be analysis, but we are still obliged to avoid misleading readers about the theories' credibility.
  • A rule of thumb that seems relevant here: write news so that if the reader stops reading after any given paragraph, what they've read will be more important than what they haven't. That's the same principle that forbids "burying the lede".

--Pi zero (talk) 03:14, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

This came up whilst vetting the couple of sentences about it in the summary, which I feel also need some sort of tweaking — though that's a somewhat different sort of challenge, as summary is always perilous in news. --Pi zero (talk) 03:25, 28 September 2020 (UTC)
I added a sentence to the lead paragraph to clarify that most legal experts reject the constitutional view of birthers.--William S. Saturn (talk) 07:32, 28 September 2020 (UTC)

Review statusEdit

Despite everyone's good intentions, here we are again on the last day of the month. I've finished going through the summary; plan to tackle the spotlight sections after some shut-eye. --Pi zero (talk) 05:05, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Done with the bat incident. --Pi zero (talk) 15:47, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

FacebookEdit

Had a bad moment when the Jo Jorgenson facebook video refused to play for me unless I logged in — which I cannot do, because facebook saw fit to block my account years ago (I wasn't willing to give them my phone number).

Turns out the problem is easily solved by removing the "m." from the url. --Pi zero (talk) 13:33, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Block quotesEdit

I replaced the various block quotes with in-line quotations. We do occasionally use block quotes, though we've tended to steer away from them on grounds they break up the continuous flow of prose. However, the indentation of block quotes gets messed up when it interacts with left-floating images, which sometimes happens here. --Pi zero (talk) 18:23, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Review of revision 4585971 [Passed]Edit

Thanks for the review.--William S. Saturn (talk) 20:46, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
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