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Talk:Day of attacks continue in Israel and Lebanon

Safed and Tzfat are the same townEdit

Please don't mention them as two seperate towns. --Jambalaya 20:31, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Funny, they're spelled very different! :) Ealturner 20:50, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Majdal Qrum, Zirit, Mount MeronEdit

Are these places too small for having "earned" an article on Wikipedia or are they misspelled? --Jambalaya 20:42, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not the complete Bible Of Reality. Those towns exist according to the news report. I took them from the link. Copied and pasted. Ealturner 20:51, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Beruit International AirportEdit

We need much more detail on this section. Ealturner 20:54, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

There is so much detail I've changed it to "Lebanon" with BIA as a subheading Ealturner 21:32, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Linked SourcesEdit

I've not put all the links eg[1]in the article in the sources section. Intend to do that later. If someone else can do that earlier, great. Ealturner 22:10, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Call for picturesEdit

Would liven up the article. Lots of text there now. Ealturner 22:57, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I've given up finding pictures that fits Wikinews' interpretation of fair use. Let's find a nice gray map. *in irony mode* --Jambalaya 23:12, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
I've found some images from wikipedia. Ealturner 23:30, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

NPOVEdit

The title as well as lede are quite POV in the sense they equalize the attacks which are not equal in either ferocity nor effect; this article as written portrays the enormously more deadly Israeli attacks as being somewhat level with the attacks from the Lebanese and that is simply not accurate nor NPOV, imo. Neutralizer 23:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

We're writing the news. That's it. Anything relevant to the day of attacks goes here. Sources are cited, statements attributed. 172.214.209.190 01:36, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

"Israel intensifies attacks against Lebanon[2] AP - 31 minutes ago " Two days of Israeli bombings killed 45 Lebanese and two Kuwaitis and wounded 103" Neutralizer 23:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

I was going to say its POV the other way Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 23:59, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Article "Summary" is entirely Israeli POVEdit

The quotes in the summary (which is at the beginning of the article) are all from the Israeli side (Israeli ambassador and Israeli General) of the conflict even including a "Operation Just Reward" reference. Neutralizer 00:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

I did some npoving to the sumary. As the article is breaking I will remove the tag and publish. If its not npov enough feel free to retag. international 01:33, 14 July 2006 (UTC) Changed my mind...
What specifically is the problem? Statements are sourced and attributed. Put more in if you want more content. Don't slap a npov tag when it is NPOV. Ealturner 02:01, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Israel claim their offensive is in retaliation to Wednesday's attack by Hezbollah on an Israeli border patrol and what Hezbollah called the capture of two Israeli soldiers. Israel said the soldiers - Ehud Goldwasser, 31, and Eldad Regev, 26 - were kidnapped. I noticed this was removed. This is attributed (bold) and sourced. There can be no objections to this paragraph on point of view grounds. Statements are attributed. Do not make frivolous objections and disrupt the hard work we're putting in here. Ealturner 02:05, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Article is NPOVEdit

This article gives both sides. There are plenty of sources and statements have been attributed. Jambalaya, myself and Noop (and others) considered this NPOV. As no major objections have been put forward I will republish. Please highlight the specific parts which require changing. As I said, this article is sourced, statements are attributed etc. This is the news. Ealturner 01:49, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Frankly I think we have done a very good job with this article. Please respect the hard work into this, the sources, text, editing, NPOV and images, when you make your comments. comments are always welcome but as we have managed to cooperate as a three so far sudden unilateral actions on part of individuals coming late to the article will not be welcome. Ealturner 01:52, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Israels justifications have nothing in the summary to do. They may be in the article together with statements from other parts involved to avoid pov. As my edits were partially reverted I find it best to remain tagged international 02:02, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

The statements are attributed. Israel's motivation is THE NEWS. You have to say it. By all means get Lebanon's side in the summary. Let's get a Lebanon quote in there. Add more news. Ealturner 02:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I've moved some of what was in the summary to a new "notes" section. Is that okay? Ealturner 02:12, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Good idea, that solved the problem international 02:13, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Ealturner and everyone else, well done on writing a good article Brian | (Talk) | New Zealand Portal 08:26, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Yay! *Hugs Intenational* (In a manly way) :) Right, Neutralizer, are you happy? Or do you have any suggestions to improve the article? Ealturner 02:15, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Poorly Written?Edit

  • It's much better now in NPOV terms. However, I would suggest that it be re-written as it seems to need a **Cleanup|badly written,disjointed and cumbersome** tag but I won't place the tag. I did some grammatical correction work but it needs a whole lot more I think. I do not think it is well written at all in its current state but I don't want to re-write the whole article just to see it reverted. Maybe some less involved editors can have a look. Neutralizer 04:25, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

lebanese and hezbollah reactionsEdit

Quote

By all means get Lebanon's side in the summary. Let's get a Lebanon quote in there. Add more news.
-- Ealturner 02:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC) (above)

fwiw, following is the list of statements from lebanese and hezbollah leaders, combed from the sources already listed in the article, which have not been reported in our article.

  1. Meanwhile, the Lebanese government has demanded that the UN convene an emergency session to discuss the Israeli offensive. [3](2. ynet)
  2. Naim Qasem, Hezbollah's deputy secretary-general, said Thursday that Hezbollah members have the right to remain on "any part of Lebanese soil." "We intend to send a clear message that we wish not to escalate this conflict by killing civilians," Qasem said. "But we know that Israel will not stop its aggression until it feels pain. Therefore, they should learn from what happened today. They have failed to protect their cities and their civilians." Nasrallah has defended the abductions of 31-year-old Ehud Goldvasser and 26-year-old Eldad Regev as Hezbollah's "natural, only and logical right." He further said that the soldiers had been taken "far away" and that no Israeli military campaign would secure their release. Nasrallah wants to enter negotiations on a prisoner exchange, a demand Israel has rebuffed, saying it would encourage more kidnappings. [4] (4. cnn)
  3. A Lebanese cabinet minister said the Israeli response was disproportionate[5] (6. bbc)
  4. Hizbollah, which is backed by Iran and Syria, said it had fired 60 rockets at Nahariya "in response to the massacres of civilians in the south and assaults on infrastructure". [6] (9. reuters)
  5. Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora has said his government did not endorse the Hizbollah attack. [7] (9. reuters)
  6. Hizbollah leader Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah said the two soldiers had been seized to force Israel to release prisoners. [8] (9. reuters)

the quotes that we did get in are

  1. Hezbollah denied the attack on Haifia but Hezbollah deputy leader Sheik Naim Kassem said they would attack the city with its population of 270,000 if "Beirut or its southern suburbs are attacked," .
  2. Lebanese ministers want a ceasefire with Israel.

Doldrums 08:50, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Operation Just RewardEdit

Israel's self titled name for its attack is offensive self-serving propaganda and adds nothing to the article. It is not newsworthy and I think it should not be publicized in a NPOV article. Neutralizer 13:51, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

it is the official name and shld be mentioned. to emphasize it, or give it undue weight, or state that the name is the correct interpretation of Israel's actions is pov. incidentally, the original hezbollah raid was called "Operation True Promise". Doldrums 13:53, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok; then we should also report the Hezbollah name for its attack; do you have a source? I will look for it. Neutralizer 13:56, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
think i do, hang on... here
Ok; found it; operation "truthful promise". I'll put in in. Thanks. Neutralizer 13:59, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, now that we know both propaganda terms we can report both as part of a npov story, it seems to me. However,if Ealturner wants to put them both into "notes" that's fine with me but I don't see a reference to the term "propaganda" in the sources so we need to leave that out of the actual article,I think. Neutralizer 14:08, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
I added the term propaganda. It's not needed now. I support the decision to find the name for Hezbollah's attack. I didn't know there was one. Ealturner 14:16, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Image:KatyusharocketsKeivmuseum.jpgEdit

Please replace Image:KatyusharocketsKeivmuseum.jpg with Image:Katyusha rockets closeup.jpg and delete the local copy as now on Commons. Adambro (talk) 23:04, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

  Done --SVTCobra 22:56, 27 May 2008 (UTC)
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