Comments:Russia advances into Georgia from Abkhazia
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When can we have peace?
Georgia a democracy? Don't make me laugh. Remember that Saakashvili was elected with 95% support - just 4% short for Saddam Hussein! Remember 2007 protests violently supressed by police. Remember the murder of Zurab Zhvania. Remember the arrest of Irakli Okruashvili. Remember the Imedi channel raided down by riot police when it became critical on president. I wouldn't say Russia is heaven and Georgia is hell, but the situation with democracy in Georgia is obviously worse. USA just covers Saakashvili because he promises loyalty.--Beaumain (talk) 21:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- better then you can say for Russia who leader was hand pick by Putin and anyone that question Putin is killed. And if you want freedom you town is destory look what happen to Chechens Russia is a hippocrate and lair all they want is to reestablish their former power in the region.--22.214.171.124 22:11, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
- Yes... Georgia is a "beautiful" democracy, full of butterflies, singing birds and a lot of happiness... It's one of the best places in the World to live. Of course, by these standards, that would make the Soviet Union or Nazi Germany the best places in the World to live too. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 126.96.36.199 (talk) 21:33, 11 August 2008 (UTC)
McCain Adviser Was Lobbyist for Georgia? edit
Wall Street Journal say, John McCain's top foreign policy adviser, Randy Scheunemann, was a paid lobbyist for the Georgia. It explains MC's striking pro-Georgian sentiment. MC will lose many points on it. --Beaumain (talk) 00:19, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- no i think Obama will lost points for calling it out and instead of telling Russia to get out of sovereign nation.--KDP3 (talk) 02:21, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm Russian, and our leaders are insane. We don't need this war. It's not our land there, and it's not our people - why are we sending our soldiers to die because of it? We kept saying that it was a "peacekeeping" operation, but now that it's a full-scale ground invasion, it's beyond even what NATO did with Serbia over Kosovo... and anyway, let Americans play peacekeepers rather - they have the men, the guns, and the desire. We have our own problems to take care of. 188.8.131.52 05:50, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
Russia must Sign peace if they want to show they didn't come to invade edit
Ossetia wants peace Georgia (that's where I'm from) wants peace Russia wants peace
At the moment everyone (to my information) is holding their own territory with a few exceptions:
- Russia has advanced a few (or a few tens of) kilometers into Georgia from Ossetia, but haven't taken any Towns. This, they explain by the fact that Georgians were bombing them from these teritories. Even though this is a lie, since Georgians had sufficient wisdom to retreat and allow them to do this (so not much casualties) this is more or less acceptable
- Russian peacekeepers (real ones, not the 58-th army) have entered cities of Zugdidi, Senaki and Poti in West Georgia outside any conflict zome. Russians have checked teritories for absence of army. And again, since Georgians did not have any army these and so, reportedly no casualties, and (as I'm hearing) upon discovering this Russians started to go back, (If this is all true) this can be seen as acceptable
- Abkhazians with the help of Russians are bombing and attacking the Kodori region, which is located in Abkhazia, but populated by ethnic Georgians, so it Remained under Georgian control all the time from 1990. Now this is UNACCEPTABLE as it is the duty of Russian peacekeepers to keep peace between Georgian and Abkhazian ethnic people in the Region on Abkhazia. they were quick to state that they are defending one side against the agression of another one in Osetia, namely the Ossetian side. (Even though who began all this is dubious, and there are arguments that show it was not Georigans, I'll discuss this later) Now, why are they not so quick to defend the Kodori villages from Abkhazian agression? (in fact they are not only defending it, they are helping abkhazians) what's this all about? STOP IT.
Georgian towns are heavily bombed (although near military bases, but some civilian houses nearby were also badly damaged. (I want to believe that they just missed the target military base) But anyway, that's not something that we or Russians can correct right now.
Anyway, if Russia resolves the 3rd problem (the Kodori), than what's there to argue. Everyone says they want peace. But Georgians have signed peace and Russians have not. Doesn't this show that Russia has other aims, than peace. If they don't sign the peace Immediately and don't back their armies from all 3 advances out of conflict territory (ESPECIALLY THE KODORI) then doesn't this show that they had motives distinct from peace, when they were invading.
This version would also fit logically into everything Georgian side said.
- Russians wanted to Attack (I don't know why exactly, possibly to gain villages populated with ethnic Georgians and thus remaining under Georgian control in One or Both regions of Abkhazia (that's Kodori) and S.Osetia (there are lots of such villages here as well) or for some other reasons). (This plan can be confirmed by the fact that there was a concentration of Army near the Georgian borders and Evacuation of Osetia started days before the war broke out)
- Russians supplied weapons to separatists and encouraged to attack Georgia, promising that Russia would back them. (This is confirmed by S.Osetia's de facto president Kokoity's speech to his people, urging them to defend him because Russians have betraued him, which was published on August 8 in the morning, while Russia hadn't yet started military operations and expressed concern just by words)
- Separatists started attacking/shelling Georigan villages and Army nearby S.Osetia to force Georgians to counterattack. These clashes and shelling were observed from Aug 1 to Aug 7 with various attempts from Georgia to ceasefire. With Separatists breaking the final ceasefire announced by Georgian president on the evening of Aug 7, Georgia decided to clean the region of separatists that were the cause of countinuous bombing. (It should be noted that with Russian Peacekeeping Army situated in S.Osetia it was their responsibility not to allow the fire from S.Osetian side, at which they failed badly. Georgia had no control of the region and thus to stop fire (which the peacekeepers didn't manage to do) the only choice was to regain control of it. which they did)
- Russia, encouraging separatists to "defend" from Georgians, which caused casualties from both sides. (Although the cited number of 1400 by Kokoity seems deliberately and largely inflated to me) Casualties gave Russians a motiv they needed to invade.
Of course this all could be false. And it could be that it just nicely and very logically fits into eachother and actually the Russian version is true. As they say Georgians attacked and they had to respond to establish peace. But in the light of continued refusal to ceasefire it seems unlikely. And if now, when all Georgian forces are withdrawn from all disputed territories, the Russians will still refuse, what more arguments do you need?
Note: both sides have exaggerated some faces. (probably in equal measure). From my side I can acknowledge that some Georgians even claimed that Russian were advancing towards Tbilisi, which is not the case. I tried to portray everything as it is, without slightest exaggeration from us. You can probably see this from he way everything is presented in a calm way. And that I'm not claiming that they entered our towns and ate out children, or stupid things like that. Hope this convinces most, if not everyone and Sufficient pressure is exerted on Russia to sign peace, so that we can start negotiations.
- President Medvedev has ordered all military actions to stop against Georgia, following an agreement. What is UNACCEPTABLE, my friend, was the attack by georgian forces of the town of Tsikhvali in South Ossetia. The russians warned the americans and the europeans, that they would respond this way, if Saakashvili was not kept in check. All of this could have happened without any bloodshed. It was not so, because the georgian government was allowed to do what it did. And this is true, because all of this is in the OSCE report. Say what you... Russia is Evil, they will eat your children and rape your women, etc. But the FACT is that Georgia started it, with the blessing of the US of A. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.108.40.206 (talk) 09:11, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
I didn't say Russia was evil and was eating our children. I said I'm not saying that. And I'm sorry if someone is saying that about russians. People have exxagerated unfair behaviours. But If Russia wants to show everyone that it's just Protecting it's citizens then what are they doing in Kodori gorge? (a few hundreds of kilometers far away from conflict) this face is Unacceptable. If you believe that they are only protecting their citizens, I can't argue about this judging on their actions in S.Osetia. O.K. they are protecting them (I don't believe this, but I can't prove, so I'm quiet on this) But who are they protecting in Kodori gorge. Are they Protecting Svans (which are Georgian). Please explain, I can't see any explanation of this. And please think about this. I understand you support Russia as your country, I support Georgia as my country. But I still ask questions why they did what. And to your satisfaction I find lots of things they did wrong. But all we want now, is a fair trial (international peacekeepers) not biased trial (Russian peacekeepers). Do we want Georgian peacekeepers. No, we don't. So, please be fair and agree on that. If you don't like US because you think it's biased then you can reject their peacekeeping mission, but you should allow us to reject a side which we think is biased - Russia. I'm sure there's lots of countries in the world that would want to help out in this situation and provide peacekeepers. Georgia accepts almost anyone except for Russians. If russians accept at least someone (It doesn't have to be US, UK, anyone you think is biased) then the conflict is resolved.
- The russians bombed everything they saw necessary to dismember the georgian military forces. Why did they bombed here and there? I don't know, only someone specialized in military strategy can explain. And there's also politics... Georgia and the US puppet Saakashvili must be humiliated. They also bombed some culturally important sites to hurt georgian pride and to make georgians scratch their heads about all of this. For example, yesterday, August 12th, mr. Saakashvili was speaking to "150.000" people, claiming victory against the Evil Russians. "We drove them back!" he said... Well, today, August 13th, the russians are roaming the streets close to Tblissi, for every georgian to see. The russians claim that their objective with this convoy is a military base outside Tblissi, where there are (they say) "tanks ready for battle". Well... something in my head says that what they really want, is to humiliate Saakashvili, after he declared victory the day before... Georgians will again scratch their heads and think: "if Saakashvili was right, and we beat the russians, what the hell is their army with heavy tanks doing in our streets?".
- So you see, defending the russian population in South Ossetia, making a position on Abkhazia is not enough for them. They want to make a huge political statement... And for that to happen, they will humiliate Saakashvili and the americans very slowly, because they are enjoying every bit of it.
Russian Audacity edit
The Russians have no right to enter Georgia on the suspicion of attacks on the Russian border.It is a human right violations.Russia shoeld refrain from screwing around with the smaller countries all around it —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.127.116.11 (talk) 11:59, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- Oh, there are many human rights violations in the World... For example, did you know that Ossetia (including South Ossetia) declared its independence way before Georgia declared its own indepedence? Do you know what happened back then? That was also a Human Rights violation, but many people kept silent about it... Another example would be the illegal Iraq invasion, the Guantanamo concentration camp, the secret CIA flights... So you see, there are many Human Rights violations, and Russia is not the only evildoer here, especially if you look back at the past week, and see who started the conflict by bombing and shelling a small city full of civilians... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.104.22.168 (talk) 14:14, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
- Well, then you should go and tell that to the OSCE presidency, because they didn't put that on their report. If you know more than them, you should give them that information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 22.214.171.124 (talk) 14:22, 13 August 2008 (UTC)